Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think steve’s RP was scheduled for yesterday. I was just wondering about them.  What is the average stay in the hospital, given good health, for a RP? Mine is scheduled for monday the 13th. Plus removal of a colon tumor. They are sparing no nerves, it’s the whole thing because of the high Gleason and 9 of 12 showed perineural invasion. I’ve heard hospital stays are 3-4 days. Is this accurate? I’m 52 and good health except for a couple of bad cancers. I went in on early Monday morning and was released on Thursday about noon.  My doc said I could go home on Wednesday, but I begged to stay another day for the beef stroganoff that was to be served on Thursday. It was terribly good. Beef Stroganoff????  All I had was juice and flavored ices.  By the second day I ordered farina – but it was so bad I didn’t eat it.  I had my surgery done at Memorial Sloane Kettering in NYC and was there less than 48 hours – from the time I went into the OR to the time I walked out of the hospital. The strangest thing to me was when the docs cleared me for discharge – I asked when they would bring a wheelchair and I was told to just walk out the room, go down the elevator and get into the car – no wheelchair necessary!! I thought it was a requirement, but I guess not in NY. Sandy K.

It was so gooood that beef stroganoff was.   They insisted on the wheel chair roll out so I did it, I felt a bit embarrassed because I was perfectly able to walk out as I had been walking a lot around the hallways from the first 24 hours.   Seriously, I consider myself very fortunate to have had an excellent surgeon and excellent hospital care.  The odd of it is neither of these are high profile or that get a lot of attention. Wish you well Sandy K.  I remember when you came on board about a year ago? —

Response:

Tom Cular wrote   the constant activity by staff can’t be avoided I DEMANDED they back off. I wasn’t joking about being awakened six times in one hour around midnight one night for routine crap. I got out of bed, dragged my iv tower down the hall, found the "charge" (head of that shift) nurse, and told her this had to stop, that I’m not in pain and I’m not sick, I’m simply and utterly exhausted. We negotiated the following plan: PLEASE HELP ME GET SOME DAMNED SLEEP. Close my door, turn off my lights, turn  off that stupid morphine machine beeper, I don’t want my face wiped with a hot towel at 5:freaking o’clock in the morning when I’m sweaty from the heat, turn down the heat in my room from 80ish to the upper 60s, I’ll let you know if I have a fever, and if you are required by VA regulations to take some vitals PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE wake me ONCE and take ‘em all at one time. Before this I was being deliberately awakened 7-10 times DELIBERATELY every night plus many more times by hallway cacophony even after getting a private room. I was getting a couple of hours a night of sleep when I had roomies, maybe up to 4-5 hours after they put me in a private VIP room AND began giving me heavy sleeping drugs. Sleeping during the day and evening shifts was virtually impossible, so I was getting less than 5-6 hours of sleep daily even in the private room. After we reached our understanding, and maybe with my surgeon backing me up, I was pretty much left alone all night, and got 8-9 hours of sleep. I didn’t care if they DID spit in my food and short-sheet my bed once I was getting enough sleep. Squeaking wheels get greased. Only one or maybe two of the nurses seemed to resent my squeaks (one because I got a VIP room not warranted by my rank; I lost TONS of sleep over that); the others (12-15?) didn’t seem to mind. I.P.

Response:

They insisted on the wheel chair roll out so I did it, I felt a bit embarrassed because I was perfectly able to walk out as I had been walking a lot around the hallways from the first 24 hours.

I once had a pseudo heart attack.  Weeks later, I found out is was residual from a jelly fish sting.  But, at the hospital, and after days of tests, they found nothing wrong with me.  ….  but, they wheeled me out anyway.

Response:

I think steve’s RP was scheduled for yesterday. I was just wondering about them.  What is the average stay in the hospital, given good health, for a RP? Mine is scheduled for monday the 13th. Plus removal of a colon tumor. They are sparing no nerves, it’s the whole thing because of the high Gleason and 9 of 12 showed perineural invasion. I’ve heard hospital stays are 3-4 days. Is this accurate? I’m 52 and good health except for a couple of bad cancers.

Your CC is the long tent pole. If it were just an RP, you’d be out in 3-4 days. But your ticket out of the hospital after colon surgery is a bowel movement, which can easily take a week. They must be certain your bowel is working again before releasing you. (I wish to HELL I had known that; I’d love to have seen their faces when I showed ‘em some plastic dog doo on about Day Three.) Told in advance I would be there for 6-8 days, I took some books and mags. Yeah, right; even light doses of morphine wipe out one’s short-term memory so thoroughly that reading is a joke. Even TV was challenging to my thought processes, partly because I was so sleepy that it took conversation or walking to keep me really awake. Even though they said I was using far less morphine than most people (I just didn’t need it), hospitals are about as conducive to sleep as watching a good football game … from front row seats on the 50-yard line. Take a good lively, brainless — but not funny — novel and a few mags in case you’re the exception to morphine’s effects, tell anybody who cares that you’ll be home in 6-8 days barring problems, and try to enjoy your few hours a day of APPARENT lucidity. (You won’t recognize your mental impairment, but your visitors will. Presume you will forget most details and write down anything you really need to remember later.) Prune juice! I.P.

Response:

Thanks IP, A friend of mine told me similar things about a back surgery he had. He said the meds were’nt adequate, for me to turn down the morphine and he’d bring some drugs by called diladid. Said he had plenty and they work and don’t confuse you. Maybe…… I have a pretty high tolerance for pain, so, I’m just gonna play it by rear:))

Response:

I think steve’s RP was scheduled for yesterday. I was just wondering about them.  What is the average stay in the hospital, given good health, for a RP? Mine is scheduled for monday the 13th. Plus removal of a colon tumor. They are sparing no nerves, it’s the whole thing because of the high Gleason and 9 of 12 showed perineural invasion. I’ve heard hospital stays are 3-4 days. Is this accurate? I’m 52 and good health except for a couple of bad cancers.

I went in on early Monday morning and was released on Thursday about noon.  My doc said I could go home on Wednesday, but I begged to stay another day for the beef stroganoff that was to be served on Thursday.   It was terribly good. Cheers, Dale j. —

Response:

I think steve’s RP was scheduled for yesterday. I was just wondering about them.  What is the average stay in the hospital, given good health, for a RP? Mine is scheduled for monday the 13th. Plus removal of a colon tumor. They are sparing no nerves, it’s the whole thing because of the high Gleason and 9 of 12 showed perineural invasion. I’ve heard hospital stays are 3-4 days. Is this accurate? I’m 52 and good health except for a couple of bad cancers.

Response:

Hey, Dave, thanks for asking. Surgery went fine on Monday.  They called me from the ER about 3 times.  They said they would, and I thought that sounded fine, but it was actually odd.   Called to tell me surgery started at 8:10.  Called after the lymph nodes were all removed, it went well.  Called when the prostate was removed, went well.  Now they’d be sewing up the urethra….  Wasn’t prepared to be visualizing it that closely. Different. After surgery, the doctor said it went very well.  Lost maybe 150 ccs of blood.  I asked about margins, he said the seminal vesicles were a little sticky to the rectum and difficult to ferret apart, but that could be residual inflammation from the biopsy.  That this hospital was slower than some on the path reports, between 1 and 2 weeks.  That he was happy about his nice strong bladder neck (I think I’m getting this right), and thinking that was a good sign for future continence. The one thing I promised Steve was about pain.  I just assumed that pain control was a given in any hospital in America.  Well, (a) no self-controlled drip, (b) 2 mg dose of morphine.  Doesn’t seem enough. I went off on them this morning becasue I didn’t believe they’d given him any morphine.  I can tell by his face.  The tension and color, I doubt it shows to strangers.  Also he didn’t sleep much last night. The roommate weighs about 600 pounds, and all his equipment that keeps him breathing sounded like a freight train.  Was malfunctioning. People would come in and ‘fix’ it, in 1 minute it would start again. Finally about 4 a.m. someone went over there and (we think) just unplugged it.  Then his IV drip kept doing this "beep.  beep.  beep." (very maddening with no sleep).  I kept asking them to stop it, they’d go press "silent" (I think) and it would start back up in a minute. Finally I just went out there, kind of between crying and yelling in a whisper, and went on and on.  About them not giving him anything for pain, about the goddamn defective equipment that kept him from sleeping and was driving me crazy.  Then I felt bad, went and ate.  All that was about 5 I think, it had been going on since I got back here at 4:00. Plus what Steve reported about between 10 pm and 4:00. The nurse somehow stopped that "beep.  beep.  beep." So the rest of the time was bearable.  They moved Steve to a room with a guy named Bob who had a TURP today.  About an hour ago.  He’s trying to sleep now. I talked to the doctor about getting his bowels moving before discharge.  He said no.  Also he hasn’t given stool softeners.  We said something about that in one of the pre-op visits and he said he didn’t do that, but we didn’t really key into that then.  Well, it is a big big deal to me now.  I think the least we can do is at least try to get that going.  Unless you don’t think it is a big deal?  The doctor said they weren’t anywhere near the bowels and it wouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe I’m reading something into this from my expierence that doesn’t apply to a RRP. The doctor would send him home tomorrow (he said at 7 a.m.) but I sure couldn’t see that then.  Plus we will stay in town for a couple of days.  He doesn’t want to stay with friends.  I have to find a motel with a recliner.  Hmmmm.  I think he should be more ready.  He’s been up twice so far today.  Was shooting for 4 times but it will probably be 3 walks.  Its getting in and out of bed, of course.  Not walking so much.  But if his pain was better managed it probably wouldn’t be so tough. This is a volunteer-staffed little library in the hospital and it closes at six p.m.  It’s 3:30 now.  So I’ll try to come back right before six and see if y’all have anything to say.  The doctor does rounds about 6-6:30 a.m. I sound stressed but this is a very, very good hospital.  Good Sam in Phoenix.  I am so happy to be here.  Just, you know, lack of sleep and lack of power to fix everything.  :o) laurel

Response:

Thanks for all the posts, y’all.  :) Today is Wednesday, and the world is far rosier.  Steve is up and walking, walking, walking.  Desperate to …  ’make gas’?  Is that a technical term?  He has been, but not to the point of "ahhhhhhhh.  That was it."  So the pain now is gas pain, pretty much.  He thought they left a probe in his butt for 2 hours, but I think it was teasing the semininal vesicles off the rectum, it is sore and tense.  But when he looks good, I feel good, and he’s so much better today, I’m going to Linda’s for a shower and a nap, maybe laundry…. We’re going to stay in Phoenix for a couple of days if I can find a motel with a recliner.  Even if not, I guess. Discharge tomorrow, the perfect amount of time in his case to be inpatient.   Talk to you later! laurel

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I think steve’s RP was scheduled for yesterday. I was just wondering about them.  What is the average stay in the hospital, given good health, for a RP? Mine is scheduled for monday the 13th. Plus removal of a colon tumor. They are sparing no nerves, it’s the whole thing because of the high Gleason and 9 of 12 showed perineural invasion. I’ve heard hospital stays are 3-4 days. Is this accurate? I’m 52 and good health except for a couple of bad cancers. I went in on early Monday morning and was released on Thursday about noon.  My doc said I could go home on Wednesday, but I begged to stay another day for the beef stroganoff that was to be served on Thursday. It was terribly good.

Beef Stroganoff????  All I had was juice and flavored ices.  By the second day I ordered farina – but it was so bad I didn’t eat it.  I had my surgery done at Memorial Sloane Kettering in NYC and was there less than 48 hours – from the time I went into the OR to the time I walked out of the hospital. The strangest thing to me was when the docs cleared me for discharge – I asked when they would bring a wheelchair and I was told to just walk out the room, go down the elevator and get into the car – no wheelchair necessary!! I thought it was a requirement, but I guess not in NY. Sandy K.

Response:

Excellent posts by both you and Laurel. I wouldn’t have believed it was physically possible for anyone to snore as loudly as my hospital roommate, and I wouldn’t have imagined that anyone would be watching inane TV sitcoms at 11 at night after surgery.  I didn’t sleep at all until 3 am when a nurse finally moved me temporarily into an empty room. Fortunately I was just there for one night for "observation" after brachtherapy. Hospitals are just the worst places to be when you’re sick and need rest.     Alan

Response:

Thanks IP, A friend of mine told me similar things about a back surgery he had. He said the meds were’nt adequate, for me to turn down the morphine and he’d bring some drugs by called diladid. Said he had plenty and they work and don’t confuse you. Maybe…… I have a pretty high tolerance for pain, so, I’m just gonna play it by rear:))

This is not the time to invoke pain tolerance. Once pain appears, morphine is FAR less effective. We must anticipate the onset of pain and hit the self-dose button before it hurts. We use much less that way AND control the pain. I.P.

Response:

This is not the time to invoke pain tolerance. Once pain appears, morphine is FAR less effective. We must anticipate the onset of pain and hit the self-dose button before it hurts. We use much less that way AND control the pain.

That’s one advantage to the epidural.  It stayed in for a couple of days after the surgery.  I never had pain. — Biopsy 11/01/2000 G7 (3+4), T2c RRP 12/15/2000 G7 (3+4), T3cN0M0 Neg margins PSA  .1  .1  .1  .27  .37  .75 PSA  .34 .22 .15 .21 .32 Lupron 07/03 (1 mo) 8/03 (4 mo), 12/03, 4/04, 09/04, 01/05, 5/05, 10/05, 2/06 PSA  .07 .05 .06 .09 .08 .132 Non Illegitimi Carborundum

Response:

Thanks IP, A friend of mine told me similar things about a back surgery he had. He said the meds were’nt adequate, for me to turn down the morphine and he’d bring some drugs by called diladid. Said he had plenty and they work and don’t confuse you. Maybe…… I have a pretty high tolerance for pain, so, I’m just gonna play it by rear:)) This is not the time to invoke pain tolerance. Once pain appears, morphine is FAR less effective. We must anticipate the onset of pain and hit the self-dose button before it hurts. We use much less that way AND control the pain. I.P.

I’m glad to report that my recent experience was pretty good, the constant activity by staff can’t be avoided, unless I was awake I never knew when they were there to see my roommate. I was regularly asked about pain and when I mentioned discomfort not pain, within minutes I was getting a blast of something through a port. Their reasoning, as I.P. pointed out is that pain is easier to prevent than overcome. My roommate and his family were pleasant, considerate folks. On the light side, he complained to his wife that the food made him belch a lot, his hearing and sense of feeling must have been disconnected from his ass :) ) Tom

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, Dave, thanks for asking. Surgery went fine on Monday.  They called me from the ER about 3 times.  They said they would, and I thought that sounded fine, but it was actually odd.   Called to tell me surgery started at 8:10.  Called after the lymph nodes were all removed, it went well.  Called when the prostate was removed, went well.  Now they’d be sewing up the urethra….  Wasn’t prepared to be visualizing it that closely. Different. After surgery, the doctor said it went very well.  Lost maybe 150 ccs of blood.  I asked about margins, he said the seminal vesicles were a little sticky to the rectum and difficult to ferret apart, but that could be residual inflammation from the biopsy.  That this hospital was slower than some on the path reports, between 1 and 2 weeks.  That he was happy about his nice strong bladder neck (I think I’m getting this right), and thinking that was a good sign for future continence. The one thing I promised Steve was about pain.  I just assumed that pain control was a given in any hospital in America.  Well, (a) no self-controlled drip, (b) 2 mg dose of morphine.  Doesn’t seem enough. I went off on them this morning becasue I didn’t believe they’d given him any morphine.  I can tell by his face.  The tension and color, I doubt it shows to strangers.  Also he didn’t sleep much last night. The roommate weighs about 600 pounds, and all his equipment that keeps him breathing sounded like a freight train.  Was malfunctioning. People would come in and ‘fix’ it, in 1 minute it would start again. Finally about 4 a.m. someone went over there and (we think) just unplugged it.  Then his IV drip kept doing this "beep.  beep.  beep." (very maddening with no sleep).  I kept asking them to stop it, they’d go press "silent" (I think) and it would start back up in a minute. Finally I just went out there, kind of between crying and yelling in a whisper, and went on and on.  About them not giving him anything for pain, about the goddamn defective equipment that kept him from sleeping and was driving me crazy.  Then I felt bad, went and ate.  All that was about 5 I think, it had been going on since I got back here at 4:00. Plus what Steve reported about between 10 pm and 4:00. The nurse somehow stopped that "beep.  beep.  beep." So the rest of the time was bearable.  They moved Steve to a room with a guy named Bob who had a TURP today.  About an hour ago.  He’s trying to sleep now. I talked to the doctor about getting his bowels moving before discharge.  He said no.  Also he hasn’t given stool softeners.  We said something about that in one of the pre-op visits and he said he didn’t do that, but we didn’t really key into that then.  Well, it is a big big deal to me now.  I think the least we can do is at least try to get that going.  Unless you don’t think it is a big deal?  The doctor said they weren’t anywhere near the bowels and it wouldn’t be a big deal. Maybe I’m reading something into this from my expierence that doesn’t apply to a RRP. The doctor would send him home tomorrow (he said at 7 a.m.) but I sure couldn’t see that then.  Plus we will stay in town for a couple of days.  He doesn’t want to stay with friends.  I have to find a motel with a recliner.  Hmmmm.  I think he should be more ready.  He’s been up twice so far today.  Was shooting for 4 times but it will probably be 3 walks.  Its getting in and out of bed, of course.  Not walking so much.  But if his pain was better managed it probably wouldn’t be so tough. This is a volunteer-staffed little library in the hospital and it closes at six p.m.  It’s 3:30 now.  So I’ll try to come back right before six and see if y’all have anything to say.  The doctor does rounds about 6-6:30 a.m. I sound stressed but this is a very, very good hospital.  Good Sam in Phoenix.  I am so happy to be here.  Just, you know, lack of sleep and lack of power to fix everything.  :o) laurel

I’m happy to hear your recovery ward experience is going so well. You’ll notice there’s no smiley face. That’s because it’s NOT FUNNY how some recovery wards treat patients. I’ve gotten blood from many turnips over the decades with a whole arsenal of persuasive skills, yet that week post-op challenged every skill I have just to get by. The biggest single club I used after asking the nurses for help failed was informing my lead surgeon I was getting virtually no sleep at all (he had told me before surgery that sleep was crucial to recovery) and that my slow recovery was going to reflect on his skills; once I explained the problems he ORDERED them resolved immediately. Most of the problems were fixed within hours. There’s no excuse for being in pain, for nurses yelling conversations up and down the ward halls all night, for being awakened six GD times in one hour for routine inquiries or probes, for roommates taking cell phone calls 24/7, for rooms kept at 80 degrees because a prima dona nurse refuses to wear a sweater and likes the heat, or for being kept in bed for 80 hours post-op because "I’m too busy to show you how to get out of bed, even once." I found ear plugs, a white noise machine, and a fan about as critical to my peace as food, water, and a bed. Until my wife procured the real McCoys for me, the ward staff gave me the ear plugs, my wife scrounged the fan from a nearby office, and the white noise source was the bed station’s humidified breathing mask which I just lay on my pillow to drown out the absolutely INCREDIBLE amount of RACKET from the hall — and that was after my surgeon got me a private room. I also made them turn off my DAMNED iv tower beeper, and turn down my room temp by 10-12 degrees. Ya tries hard to be nice, then ya has to decide which issues are worth getting forceful about. Several issues — such as repeated wrong, even dangerous, meds; a plugged catheter; and an idiot 10 feet away taking routine phone calls at 3:AM — were worth losing the Mister Congeniality award over. (It may be highly valued by nurses, but is not worth losing several days’ sleep over.) I’ll forget my year in diapers, my first post-op sneeze, and maybe even my repeated catheter blockages, but I’ll never forget or excuse my week in the recovery ward. I will never go into a hospital recovery ward again without first securing some serious commitments from my surgeon for serious personal support during that phase. Be nice when it works, be firm as hell when that fails, and lean on the surgeon if necessary. Good luck. I.P.

Response:

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)  When I told him this, he says "so why are you here?"  I reminded him that the cystoscopy discharge form had requested a follow-up appointment.  But beyond that I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.  Fair enough, but in my opinion, and my wife’s, he was annoyed that I had chosen another surgeon.  He even tried to disparage him at one point, thus scaring me more than I already am, and reminded me about "all the time he’d already spent with me."  (To my mind, it wasn’t a lot of time, and the couple times I tried to contact him or his assistant, I had a heck of a time getting past his administrative staff. Their phone system sometimes overflows to an answering service even when they’re *open*.)  He said if I had an emergency, of course, "we’d try to help you out, we’re only human."  He also indicated that he’s always there for later blood tests, etc.  But his manner wasn’t very friendly, and it wasn’t very supportive.  He ended the interview abruptly. I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

Ron – I too live in the Jersey suburbs.  My  local uro diagnosed my PCa via bloodwork and later biopsy.  After hearing him tell me I had a 50/50 chance of regaining potency, I decided to visit MSK in NYC.  Dr. Scardino suggested that I had a 90% chance or regaining potency – after getting rid of the cancer and regaining continence.  I too chose to have my RRP done at MSK.  I went back once after my surgery and Dr. Scardino’s nurse removed my cath. When I had told my local uro that I wasn’t going to use him for my surgery, but that I still considered him my uro, he said that when he was younger, he got upset about such things.  Now, he doesn’t.  He’s my urologist for everything – however, I did go into the city to have my cath removed. Sandy K. Diagnosed 2/2004 – age 47 9 of 12 cores malignant – Gleason 3+3, PSA 4.89 RRP 6/2004 Post RRP PSAs – all <0.01 Off pads at teh 3-month mark regaining potency – however 50 mg V works wonders!!

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)  When I told him this, he says "so why are you here?"  I reminded him that the cystoscopy discharge form had requested a follow-up appointment.  But beyond that I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.  Fair enough, but in my opinion, and my wife’s, he was annoyed that I had chosen another surgeon.  He even tried to disparage him at one point, thus scaring me more than I already am, and reminded me about "all the time he’d already spent with me."  (To my mind, it wasn’t a lot of time, and the couple times I tried to contact him or his assistant, I had a heck of a time getting past his administrative staff. Their phone system sometimes overflows to an answering service even when they’re *open*.)  He said if I had an emergency, of course, "we’d try to help you out, we’re only human."  He also indicated that he’s always there for later blood tests, etc.  But his manner wasn’t very friendly, and it wasn’t very supportive.  He ended the interview abruptly. I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

the guy that put it in took it out. dalej —

Response:

I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice.

I would certainly dump your current uro.  What an ass! I would ask your new surgeon to make arrangements with someone close to your home to remove the catheter.  We recently did that for an employee who suffered an on-the-job injury to her cheek.  She was going to Orlando.  I talked to the boss doc at the local ER and he made some contacts in Orlando for her followup there. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)  When I told him this, he says "so why are you here?"  I reminded him that the cystoscopy discharge form had requested a follow-up appointment.  But beyond that I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.  Fair enough, but in my opinion, and my wife’s, he was annoyed that I had chosen another surgeon.  He even tried to disparage him at one point, thus scaring me more than I already am, and reminded me about "all the time he’d already spent with me."  (To my mind, it wasn’t a lot of time, and the couple times I tried to contact him or his assistant, I had a heck of a time getting past his administrative staff. Their phone system sometimes overflows to an answering service even when they’re *open*.)  He said if I had an emergency, of course, "we’d try to help you out, we’re only human."  He also indicated that he’s always there for later blood tests, etc.  But his manner wasn’t very friendly, and it wasn’t very supportive.  He ended the interview abruptly. I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

Do it yourself.  Just not too soon.  I had mine removed in 8 days by the uro’s nurse.  After my male sling surgery, I was told I should remove it the second day.  It’s easy and painless, duck soup, piece of cake, etc.

Response:

A point can be made here that you are the patient, and the one whose life is on the line.  Do not go into things that you are uncomfortable with and doctors your are uncomfortable with.  You have a right to be well informed on all procedures, to pick the doctor you want (within your insurance network) and to expect to be accommodated as best as possible when possible as to travel, etc..  If you are not being treated that way, then put your foot down.  And if a doctor’s feeling get hurt along the way, so be it.

Thank you Dale, and everyone else who responded.  Yes, the more I think about it, the more peeved I am at the local guy’s manner.  There are other local uros.  Sounds like catheter removal is no big deal.  (Though I think I’ll pass on the door handle technique  :)  ) You guys are the greatest! -RonL

Response:

I’ve had catheters removed 4-5 times over 2-3 surgeries. Done right — empty the in-bladder bulb and sliiiiiip it out with a smooth motion of the hand —   it’s barely perceptible and totaly painless. Done too quickly — with a quick yank (AFTER DEFLATING THE BULB!!!!!) — it hurts like hell for about 0.6 seconds (that’s how a senior ER nurse did it, and next time I see him I’ll educate him.) When I got tired of my catheter and my doc agreed over the phone (from 220 miles away) that it was safe to remove it, I just called a nurse over the phone, followed his instructions, and had it out in 30 seconds, as easily and comfortably as peeing. It takes a simple syringe (no needle), 5-6 seconds to deflate the bulb, and a 1-2-second wave of the hand — I could do it now safely and imperceptibly in 15 seconds. ANY nurse — heck, "probably many hospital janitors" — could do it. I.P.

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"Alan Meyer" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now, if you’d like to try it yourself, here’s the simple procedure that’s guaranteed to get it out: Step 1: Drain the bag. Step 2: Open the door to your bed or bathroom and walk inside. Step 3: Tie the bag end of the catheter to the door knob. Step 4: Hold your breath, close your eyes, and slam the door. I’ve been recommending this procedure for years.  Not one person has yet told me that they tried it and had a problem. :)

PLEASE REALIZE, FOLKS, THAT HE’S  J*O*K*I*N*G. The smiley applies to the whole procedure, not just the last sentence. I.P.

Response:

This reminds me of something that actually happened at a VA hospital in Southern California.  A good friend of mine was in medical school doing a rotation at the local VA where he heard of an elderly patient confined to a wheelchair who was probably depressed and a bit out of it when one day he got fed up with the wheelchair while on a second floor balcony, stood up next to the railing, and threw the wheelchair over the side.  Of course his bag and catheter tube were firmly affixed to the wheelchair. Dave Perry

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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (snip) I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. FWIW, I know a fellow whose wife removed the catheter — after getting some instruction from the medic’s staff. Mainly need to make sure that the balloon is deflated… My suprapubic catheter was removed by the uro (who had botched my cryosurgery, another story). Regards, Steve J

Removing the catheter is a simple operation.  Clip the stub part of the wye to relieve the water pressure in the balloon and pull it out. The day I had my male sling installed they sent me home with instruction re how to remove it. There were two ways — the above or inserting  a hypodermic needle in the end of the stub to withdraw the water.

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"DonC" wrote Removing the catheter is a simple operation.  Clip the stub part of the wye to relieve the water pressure in the balloon and pull it out. The day I had my male sling installed they sent me home with instruction re how to remove it. There were two ways — the above or inserting  a hypodermic needle in the end of the stub to withdraw the water.

I’m guessing the hypo syringe (no needle; the Foley balloon fitting is made to fit right onto the plastic syringe) is a more positive way to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the balloon is empty. If it’s not and you start removing the catheter, you may experience some of the worst pain of your life. Remember: the human pain scale runs from orgasm to passing kidney stones, and a catheter balloon is bigger than a kidney stone. I’ve experienced both, and far preferred the orgasm. I.P.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "DonC" wrote Removing the catheter is a simple operation.  Clip the stub part of the wye to relieve the water pressure in the balloon and pull it out. The day I had my male sling installed they sent me home with instruction re how to remove it. There were two ways — the above or inserting  a hypodermic needle in the end of the stub to withdraw the water. I’m guessing the hypo syringe (no needle; the Foley balloon fitting is made to fit right onto the plastic syringe) is a more positive way to be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN the balloon is empty. If it’s not and you start removing the catheter, you may experience some of the worst pain of your life. Remember: the human pain scale runs from orgasm to passing kidney stones, and a catheter balloon is bigger than a kidney stone. I’ve experienced both, and far preferred the orgasm. I.P.

I.P. That is exactly the reason the nurse who removed mine used a syringe, gravity doesn’t guarantee complete emptying of the balloon. Tom

Response:

Now, if you’d like to try it yourself, here’s the simple procedure that’s guaranteed to get it out: Step 1: Drain the bag. Step 2: Open the door to your bed or bathroom and walk inside. Step 3: Tie the bag end of the catheter to the door knob. Step 4: Hold your breath, close your eyes, and slam the door.

No doubt it works, but then you’re stuck with the bag.  I have another two-step process…. Step 1:  Hale a taxi and have him take you somewhere. Sept 2:  Exit the taxi leaving the bag on the back seat and pay the driver (remember to leave zipper open).

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)  When I told him this, he says "so why are you here?"  I reminded him that the cystoscopy discharge form had requested a follow-up appointment.  But beyond that I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.  Fair enough, but in my opinion, and my wife’s, he was annoyed that I had chosen another surgeon.  He even tried to disparage him at one point, thus scaring me more than I already am, and reminded me about "all the time he’d already spent with me."  (To my mind, it wasn’t a lot of time, and the couple times I tried to contact him or his assistant, I had a heck of a time getting past his administrative staff. Their phone system sometimes overflows to an answering service even when they’re *open*.)  He said if I had an emergency, of course, "we’d try to help you out, we’re only human."  He also indicated that he’s always there for later blood tests, etc.  But his manner wasn’t very friendly, and it wasn’t very supportive.  He ended the interview abruptly. I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

You urologist has one of those "I am Doctor, I am God" attitudes.  Well they are not gods, and they should be able to take a patient seeking a different doctor with no emotional breakdown!  I think you are well to be rid of him. The removal of the catheter is no big deal, as most have told you here.  My urologist was going to be on vacation when my cath was due to come out.  He came very close to just telling me to remove it myself, but I am sure he was afraid I would not wait the entire two weeks that he was wanting the cath to stay in. Pretty smart fellow on that one, cause I would have been tempted to pull it early.  The urologist shares an office with a cardiologist, so he told me to come in and have that doctor remove the catheter.   Well, this cardiologist had obviously never removed a Foley catheter.  I showed him the tube to cut to drain the balloon, and he grabbed the scissors and cut it.  I had not had time to tell him that saline was going to drain out of the tube, and some urine may flow upon removal. Anyway, it made a pretty good puddle in his office.  Also had me hopping over to a sink with my pants around my knees!  I was the one who gave it a pull after the balloon had drained. The next time (yes I had a next time), the urologist had me remove the catheter myself. No big deal.  I did it standing in the shower so as not to worry about the water flow.  If it is too far to drive for the removal of the catheter, I would think that your primary care doctor’s office would have no problem doing it.  May well just see a nurse for the removal. Your surgeon will most likely have seen you for follow up and staple removal at one week post op.  The catheter usually stays in for two weeks, but may vary by the surgeons discretion. A point can be made here that you are the patient, and the one whose life is on the line.  Do not go into things that you are uncomfortable with and doctors your are uncomfortable with.  You have a right to be well informed on all procedures, to pick the doctor you want (within your insurance network) and to expect to be accommodated as best as possible when possible as to travel, etc..  If you are not being treated that way, then put your foot down.  And if a doctor’s feeling get hurt along the way, so be it. Dale P Denver, CO

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ron – I too live in the Jersey suburbs.  My  local uro diagnosed my PCa via bloodwork and later biopsy.  After hearing him tell me I had a 50/50 chance of regaining potency, I decided to visit MSK in NYC.  Dr. Scardino suggested that I had a 90% chance or regaining potency – after getting rid of the cancer and regaining continence.  I too chose to have my RRP done at MSK. I went back once after my surgery and Dr. Scardino’s nurse removed my cath. When I had told my local uro that I wasn’t going to use him for my surgery, but that I still considered him my uro, he said that when he was younger, he got upset about such things.  Now, he doesn’t.  He’s my urologist for everything – however, I did go into the city to have my cath removed.

Thanks Sandy.  Sounds like you’ve got a gem of a uro locally, and surely a fine surgeon.  Scardino wasn’t taking patients when I called, but I found his colleague Dr. Eastham and am very impressed so far.  Not that big a deal to go back in for followup. I never dreamed six weeks ago I’d be poking around this group, but I sure am glad you guys are here.   Thank you all, and, most of all, good ealth!  -RonL

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Hello Ron.     Very similiar circumstances with my local Urologist… He was ready to do orinthology..(remove testicles) or external beam radiation at another hospital with an older machine… My Dr. said I was going to die, and I was not doing very well, and when we had a visit to him with my wife I had tears in my eyes, and he threw the kleenex box at me.     Now, he did the biopsy, and found cancer. (that was another story)     I went into his office for treatment for radiation to recieve a Lupron shot.  I walked into his dark office, and he had this huge needle on his desk, asked me to drop my pants, gave me a shot, and off I went.     So after future evaluation, I went to other Dr.s…was very happy with their service, and since my RP was over 200 miles from home, I bit my tongue, and had my Urolgist in my small town remove the catheter.  He did it matter of factly, and I thanked him and left.  Since then he has quit the urology business… I hope this answers the question. John Loomis

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)  When I told him this, he says "so why are you here?"  I reminded him that the cystoscopy discharge form had requested a follow-up appointment.  But beyond that I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.  Fair enough, but in my opinion, and my wife’s, he was annoyed that I had chosen another surgeon.  He even tried to disparage him at one point, thus scaring me more than I already am, and reminded me about "all the time he’d already spent with me."  (To my mind, it wasn’t a lot of time, and the couple times I tried to contact him or his assistant, I had a heck of a time getting past his administrative staff. Their phone system sometimes overflows to an answering service even when they’re *open*.)  He said if I had an emergency, of course, "we’d try to help you out, we’re only human."  He also indicated that he’s always there for later blood tests, etc.  But his manner wasn’t very friendly, and it wasn’t very supportive.  He ended the interview abruptly. I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

Response:

Ron, It sounds to me like the local uro is not a trustworthy fellow.  Your experience confirms the validity of your decision to get the operation done at MSK. For future local treatment, I’d explain to your GP why you have lost confidence in the uro and ask him, or your insurance company, or whoever you have to see for a reference, for a reference to a different urologist. As to the removal of the catheter, you can call MSK and ask them what should be done. Now, if you’d like to try it yourself, here’s the simple procedure that’s guaranteed to get it out: Step 1: Drain the bag. Step 2: Open the door to your bed or bathroom and walk inside. Step 3: Tie the bag end of the catheter to the door knob. Step 4: Hold your breath, close your eyes, and slam the door. I’ve been recommending this procedure for years.  Not one person has yet told me that they tried it and had a problem. :)      Alan

Response:

I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)

[snipped for brevity] Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

Ron, I had brachytheraphy and did not know until the morning of the procedure that I was going to leave with a foley and keep it for a couple of days, in the same breath that the Dr. told me I was going to leave with more plumbing than I came in with, he also told me that his office makes arrangements for a visiting nurse from Meridian (Monmouth and Ocean Counties) to come to your home and remove the catheter. I actually had two visits, one late  the same afternoon following the procedure and the next day to remove it. There was a lot of needless aprehension on my part concerning the removal, I never felt a thing. I don’t have any idea where you’re located,  but I’d bet that MSK is able to make similar arrangements. Tom

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Removing the cath isn’t a big deal.  My doctor’s office nurse took mine out.  She cut the tube with a scissors about six inches below little Willie.  This drained out the fluid (deflated the bulb in the bladder).  She told me to take a deep breath, she slid it out, and it was all over.  She did have me hold a small pan under Willie to catch the small amount of urine that will follow the catheter on the way out.  Removing the tape on my leg holding the tubing in place was a much bigger deal. That hurt!  You or your spouse could probably do it yourself except that if you’re someone who sweats everything, you may be more comfortable with a pro.  As for your doctor, apparently you’re not on good terms with him but it’s hard to imagine he could (or would) do anything to make removal more difficult for you.  Still, I’d give him the cold shoulder simply because of his attitude.  As for "all the time he spent —" remind him that he was paid one way or another for every minute of his precious time.  You might call around to clinics in your area to see if they will do it.  Or, you could probably go to any urologist’s office and have them do it.  Of course you’ll have to pay for an office visit, etc..  How about your regular physician?  I’m sure lots of people have surgery elsewhere and have to have followup things like this done.  It should be pretty easy to find someone.  Good luck. Dave Perry

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(snip) I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice.

FWIW, I know a fellow whose wife removed the catheter — after getting some instruction from the medic’s staff. Mainly need to make sure that the balloon is deflated… My suprapubic catheter was removed by the uro (who had botched my cryosurgery, another story). Regards, Steve J "Well, I’ve wrestled with reality for thirty-five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." — James Stewart as Elwood P. Dowd in "Harvey"

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<snip I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.

<snip In my primitive ‘burb’ d/under, we have a Continence Educator/Nurse who supervised  the voiding trials over 2 days and removed mine, plus also gave me a brown bagful of DIYs plus another Foley if things got bad. She’s 5 mins drive from home :) She also reports back to the Uro. It’s no "biggie" except a YELP when they draw the air out of the balloon and then drag out the tube. BTW: I’m having a Cystoscopy this morning to see if I can have another TURP so I can pee reasonably after the HDRB in July 2005, where they boiled and blistered my Candy-Melon sized 72cc Prostate beyond belief! My PSA is currently Undetectable, but I’m looking for the ‘bounce’ say 6 mths on to see where and if it settles. — Reader to complete… — Please reply to this ng as my email adress is fake: — Regards — CC

Response:

I ask because I just had a disconcerting visit with my local uro.  I’d been referred to him (on a township newsgroup) after my regular doc found slightly elevated PSA.  He’s the one who did the biopsy, discussed (briefly) the results with me, and did a follow-up cystoscopy (bladder is ok).  But he’d somehow struck me as a bit of a self-promoter, and I couldn’t find info anywhere about his ability/experience as a surgeon.  So I had done a lot of my own research and decided on RRP with a surgeon at MSK in NYC.  I’m on his surgical calendar for March.  (I live in a Jersey suburb.)  When I told him this, he says "so why are you here?"  I reminded him that the cystoscopy discharge form had requested a follow-up appointment.  But beyond that I wanted to know whether I could still count on him as my local uro, eg. to take out the catheter.  In essence, he said "no."  He says post op stuff is the responsibility of the surgeon.  Fair enough, but in my opinion, and my wife’s, he was annoyed that I had chosen another surgeon.  He even tried to disparage him at one point, thus scaring me more than I already am, and reminded me about "all the time he’d already spent with me."  (To my mind, it wasn’t a lot of time, and the couple times I tried to contact him or his assistant, I had a heck of a time getting past his administrative staff. Their phone system sometimes overflows to an answering service even when they’re *open*.)  He said if I had an emergency, of course, "we’d try to help you out, we’re only human."  He also indicated that he’s always there for later blood tests, etc.  But his manner wasn’t very friendly, and it wasn’t very supportive.  He ended the interview abruptly. I know some of you have traveled great distances for surgery.  Surely you didn’t return just to have the catheter removed.  Then again, you probably didn’t have it done by a local specialist whom you thought you’d alienated. Would appreciate comments or advice. Ron L  (who sweats the small stuff, the big stuff, everything) Dx 12/22/05, G(3+3) in 20% of 1 core out of 11, T1c, PSA 5.1, age 64

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Question:

Did you even read Ty’s post?  As she said, newsgroup propagation doesn’t work that way–in other people’s newsreaders, the post you are responding to may not be "up one post," or might not even show up until AFTER your post. -Bertha

Sbcglobal – might not ever show up. A

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no ~~~~~

Response:

no ~~~~~

ROFL!  Perfect. — Ty Who is mostly just a slightly skewed Donna Reed Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.          ~~ William Pitt, 18 Nov 1783

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and you are who? The newsgroup police? Get a life dude! The fact that there was only 1 post above mine gave me every reason to answer without quoting. Some of you are waaaaaay too anal. If you wanna know WHAT, scroll up one post and look! God help you!

Well, dude, when I have already read a post it ain’t freakin about anything the next time I display posts, dude. The only posts displayed are the ones I haven’t read, dude. Pull your head out of you smart ass and learn how to post. Dude.

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I scrolled up one post and it was you talking about fucking retarded kids in wheelchairs. Is that the one you were talking about?

Hmm… I only saw the one about him blowing gorillas.

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Do what?  Who are you talking to?  What did they say? and you are who? The newsgroup police? Get a life dude! The fact that there was only 1 post above mine gave me every reason to answer without quoting. Some of you are waaaaaay too anal. If you wanna know WHAT, scroll up one post and look! God help you! Ken

Ken, what *you* see on your newsreader is not what everyone else sees. I guessed what you were talking about, because I had replied to you…..but then again, maybe someone else did and it hasn’t hit my news server yet. Kris

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something like: Do what?  Who are you talking to?  What did they say? and you are who? The newsgroup police? Get a life dude! The fact that there was only 1 post above mine gave me every reason to answer without quoting. Some of you are waaaaaay too anal. If you wanna know WHAT, scroll up one post and look! God help you!

Did you even read Ty’s post?  As she said, newsgroup propagation doesn’t work that way–in other people’s newsreaders, the post you are responding to may not be "up one post," or might not even show up until AFTER your post. -Bertha — "You are so clueless that if you dressed in a clue skin, doused yourself in clue musk, and did the clue dance in the middle of a field of horny clues at the height of clue mating season, you still would not have a clue."                         <http://www.guymacon.com/FUN/INSULT/INDEX.HTM

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Do what?  Who are you talking to?  What did they say? and you are who? The newsgroup police? Get a life dude! The fact that there was only 1 post above mine gave me every reason to answer without quoting. Some of you are waaaaaay too anal. If you wanna know WHAT, scroll up one post and look! God help you!

Silly boy.  The post "above" yours was on a different thread entirely. Not too familiar with usenet, hmmm? — Ty Who is mostly just a slightly skewed Donna Reed Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.          ~~ William Pitt, 18 Nov 1783

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I have been selling on ebay going on 6 years and I know that during the holidays I can’t rely on Paypal or eBay payment confirmations el pronto like normally. This year I seem to be getting my auction listing confirmations late. Today, the 28th I have had 6 ebay listing confirmations from the 23rd & 24th, trickle in at about 1 every 20 minutes. I am not angry or anything as I have adjusted to the holiday bog down from past years. Just seems like it’s always something. :) Ken Happy Selling To EVERYONE!

Response:

I have been selling on ebay going on 6 years and I know that during the holidays I can’t rely on Paypal or eBay payment confirmations el pronto like normally. This year I seem to be getting my auction listing confirmations late. Today, the 28th I have had 6 ebay listing confirmations from the 23rd & 24th, trickle in at about 1 every 20 minutes. I am not angry or anything as I have adjusted to the holiday bog down from past years. Just seems like it’s always something. :) Ken Happy Selling To EVERYONE!

Maybe it’s just me, but the emails never told me anything I couldn’t find out faster just by doing a seller search or checking My eBay. I’ve turned off every PayPal and eBay email notification I can. Kris

Response:

I certainly could do that I guess, but I would rather have notifications.  I have this tendancy to expect it to be delivered to me in an email with the customer name and address. That’s just how I have been use to it for years. Plus, I’m  way to busy to be doing seller searches and My eBay is not as helpful to me as it is to others. I use it, but not every feature. I still have my little old system that I have been using for years and since I am not a "power seller" it works just fine.  I just adjust it a little during the holidays and check my Paypal account more often. Ken

Response:

I certainly could do that I guess,

Do what?  Who are you talking to?  What did they say? This is a usenet discussion group, not a message board on a website.   Please follow the generally-accepted usenet convention of quoting a bit of whatever message you’re replying to.   Newsgroup propagation being what it is, some folks will see your response before they see the post on which you’re commenting. (Others, in fact, may *never* see the original post or didn’t bother reading it.) Another problem is that given the way threads drift, a subject line may have little or nothing to do with what the current discussion involves. When you fail to cite a bit of the original message, your own comments just hang out in the air, connected to nothing and making little or no sense. For a comprehensive, net-wide FAQ, check this site: http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html — Ty Who is mostly just a slightly skewed Donna Reed Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.          ~~ William Pitt, 18 Nov 1783

Response:

Do what?  Who are you talking to?  What did they say?

and you are who? The newsgroup police? Get a life dude! The fact that there was only 1 post above mine gave me every reason to answer without quoting. Some of you are waaaaaay too anal. If you wanna know WHAT, scroll up one post and look! God help you! Ken

Response:

Do what?  Who are you talking to?  What did they say? and you are who? The newsgroup police? Get a life dude! The fact that there was only 1 post above mine gave me every reason to answer without quoting. Some of you are waaaaaay too anal. If you wanna know WHAT, scroll up one post and look! God help you! Ken

I scrolled up one post and it was you talking about fucking retarded kids in wheelchairs. Is that the one you were talking about? Craig

Response:

Question:

Part 5 of 5: Making peace with the unknown Josephine Marcotty, Star Tribune November 3, 2005 Just before Christmas, Dr. Dennis Drehner received a fax from the Red Cross — two pages that held the results of the last test done with some of the last of Reece Meikle’s blood. Every other test, every other lead, had petered out into nothing. He had followed them all to their dead ends: Years earlier, a cousin of Reece’s father had died from a sudden, runaway illness. But her autopsy report said the 42-year-old woman had died of toxic shock syndrome from a bacterial infection. Reece’s uncle had had some kind of immune disorder, but his medical records showed there was no parallel to Reece. And an expert at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester had quashed Drehner’s faint hope that maybe he had found a minute sign of infection in Reece’s brain. Now the fax in Drehner’s hand confirmed one thing — the antibody that had attacked Reece’s blood and caused his anemia was, indeed, unusual. Antibodies — molecules made by the body’s immune system — are supposed to kill off invaders such as viruses and bacteria. But the one made in Reece’s body had, instead, killed him. And it did it in two ways. First, it destroyed his red blood cells by poking holes in their delicate walls. Then it bundled them together in clumps until they clogged the tiny blood vessels in his body, destroying his organs one by one. Usually such rare antibodies do either one thing or the other. Doctors know how to defend against both with antibiotics, drugs that suppress the immune system and blood transfusions. Patients often live. Reece never had a chance. Even with all those medical weapons at their disposal, his doctors could not stop an antibody that was doubly lethal and acted with such breathtaking speed. It was as rare as it was deadly. Drehner’s exhaustive search of the medical literature had turned up only a handful of other fatal cases that had one or two elements that were similar to Reece’s. None was exactly like his. And virtually all had some other serious medical problem in addition to the anemia. Reece had been a healthy teenager. The expert from the Red Cross could not answer Drehner’s final questions. He could not say why the antibody had attacked Reece’s blood. He could not say why Reece’s body had created such a terrible molecule. Drehner put the letter in Reece’s file and closed it. The investigation was over. In March, Reece’s parents, Roger and Leona Meikle, faced Drehner and Dr. Yoav Messinger in a room at Children’s Hospital of St. Paul for one final meeting. He had an answer, Drehner told them. But it was not what they were looking for. Every line of investigation — from the autopsy to the meticulous hunt for infection to the family’s medical history — was a dead end. The cause of Reece’s death was unknown. He was certain that there was an answer. But for now it was beyond the reach of scientific knowledge. In medicine, however, unresolved cases are never closed. Drehner explained that he would publish Reece’s story in a scientific journal so it would reside indefinitely in the medical databases. A year — or 10 years — from now, Drehner might get a call from another doctor who was dealing with a case like Reece’s. One case was a mystery. Two might be the start of a pattern that could lead to an answer. As Drehner spoke, miles away in an anonymous government building in Minneapolis, a freezer hummed quietly in a long hall. It was filled with stacks of frost-covered cardboard boxes. Many belonged to someone who had died or who had been seriously ill from some unidentified infection. One of them belonged to Reece. Inside his box were vials that held bits of his tissue and blood. There they would stay, frozen forever at about 75 degrees below zero Celsius, waiting for the next evolution of technology that might reveal the secret of his death. Leona listened intently to Drehner. After 10 months, she and Roger had seen this coming. She was at peace with it. Death from an unknown cause had turned out to be a sort of blessing. Roger said it best one night as they sat together at their kitchen table. "I don’t feel guilty," he said. "I don’t blame anybody. I just miss him." In a strange way, Leona felt gratified. Reece had stumped the best scientific minds in the country. Even in death he was unique. He would be remembered forever in the annals of medicine. She leaned over the table toward Drehner and told him that she was glad it was difficult. He knew just what she meant. He and Messinger felt much the same way. They could not have saved Reece from the unknown. No one could. … As the long, dark winter finally turned toward spring, Leona began planning a party. It would be held on April 30, 2005, the first anniversary of Reece’s death — a day she dreaded. But she was determined to make it a day of joy for her family; it would be a surprise birthday party for her oldest sister, Lynn. It was time to smile. Months earlier Leona had been brought to tears when the community of Woodbury had come together to raise money for a high school baseball grandstand that would be called Reece’s Bleachers. It would carry a plaque that read, "Don’t cry because it’s over, smile because it happened." At Christmas, his older brother, Grant, refused to hang the ornaments that Reece had made in elementary school or the stocking with his name on it. He argued about it with a cousin. Leona made the call — she put them up with the others. Reece’s birthday at the end of January had seemed like a black hole waiting to swallow her up. But his friends insisted that she keep her promise to celebrate his memory on that day. She invited them to go bowling, which Reece had loved, and said anyone who wanted to could come. The place was full of kids wearing pink T-shirts printed with Reece’s photo and his trademark saying: "I’m awesome." It was one of the best days she had had all year. For her sister’s surprise party in April, Leona’s family chose the tiny caf

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -poet (p…@asarian-host.net) writes: > X-No-Archive: yes > In article 6f351289f63676a7b16d.bafe2284085…@asarian-host.net, pegasus at > pega…@asarian-host.net wrote on 10/18/05 14:28: >> "poet" <p…@asarian-host.net> wrote in message >> news:9e673c2c0ffa45196f212.9df1dba14dd15@asarian-host.net… >>> In article dis26t$av…@theodyn.ncf.ca, Eleonore Beaudoin at >>> bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA wrote on 10/15/05 18:09: >>>> I must doa good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >>> lucky for you because i have a code. >> get well sood :-) > dank you.

Dunk each other in private, will ya…? :) > — > For more information about this posting service, contact: > h…@asarian-host.net — for all info about our server. > If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: > https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ghost (night-ri…@Cookieshaw.ca) writes: > Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >> Ghost (night-ri…@Cookieshaw.ca) writes: >>>Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >>>>Talk about a loneliness support ng. >>>>I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >>>>Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >>>>supported out of lonelienss;-) >>>>Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >>>>Just now seemign to come out of it. >>>i’ve been like that since sometime last week, feeling a lil better today >>>(sunday) >> Physically…? >> Spikolodgigiddyy? >> Both? > went through a cras : >

Crash? Emotional then? Brother on your back still? Deflate his tires!;-) >> Been feeling physically very bad Friday night and Sat, nauseous, tooth and >> face lancing, that side of the skull feeling covered with water, which did >> not help the spikolodgigiddily yayay side. When one uses all they have of >> reserve of positive thoughts with n new input from life in weeks, staying >> hoem sick, their reserves getlow where a bit sicker makes them run out. > i know what you mean

Sorry for just being a moan on your days since so long now….. Hopefully we both make it back to normal very soon…. BTW, you will have to email me to give me your blog addie clearly as I can not find it…. (Donlt reply here unless you want it known to the universe of course). >> I amnaged of I cried today, just sheer fleh exuastion. > {{{{{{{{{{{{{Chloe}}}}}}}}}}}}

Thanks. S’okay. It got some liquid out of the head;-):) >> By now the lack of light affects me. We had a bitsy bit yesterday, but >> that was it for the last 7-8 dys, where the days also got shorter real >> suddenly. which means less hours of whatevr light -or lack of- to live on. >> Whgile I do not suffer from depression or manic depression, I learned that >> after three staright days without light, usually after 5 even more >> noticeably so, my batteries run lower. >> Staring at the completely black floors (dog food, bird stuff, just filth >> all over) > <looks around> > looks ok to me :)

We hve to talk;-) Sit down…Got to break the news: Ghost, you are *not* a seer;-):):) But a very good friend, that you are:) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->   and thinking of hwo I only had this weekend and the next to not >> emabrass my sister when friends of hers (if not real pro movers) move her >> ex washign machines into my dumpy plavce, it got to look sdiscouragng to >> not be able to moe at all on Sunday and be so dead drained today. >> Just back from the laundromat… >> Went to the old place, not carign foe the sunday hurs of the new >> laundromat closer to my place-closes at 2:30 P.M. on Sundays, what a silly >> thing:(. >> At the old one, it was very quiet and near dead. Only one guy at forst. I >> think I saw him there before. Younger than me, I thought in his late >> twenties til I saw him again later and realized he probably is in his >> 3-s-40s. Too bad I did not notice before as he made a nice smile as he saw >> me walk in…..Me thought t was a kid confusing me froma  distance for a >> teen, hah. That’ll teach me to try and pick ‘[em my age and not in the >> craddle. Shuld get them int eh craddeso theyc an be in hape to clean my >> place and do my laundry heheeh:). >> Anyway. >> Went nice and smooth but was a bt nervous as just as I was about to leave >> three tens looking like the lil gang ty[e got in, tryign to forst break in >> through a door that was locked, not thinking of trying the side where the >> doors were wifde opened for fresh air. >> Then the next thign I knew they were inside and staring at the change >> machine and planning hwo to break into it… >> I glanced around, There was the same guy that smiled hi at me (though inf >> act might have been both a guy in his twentis and later that one in his >> 30s-40s, I am a very bad physionomist and do not rememebr faces fast, so…). >> Glanced hsi way to see if he stillw as there as the teens (early 20s in >> fact, 19-12 sort of kids) were elbowing ech other looking myw ay. Did not >> want to eye the other guy either not to be stcuk with some hero syndrime >> guy uness my life woudl depend on it…Buyt gave myself a serious absorbed >> look, tehn seign they stull were starign my way seeming to have some >> confused plan trygn to simmer, I loked more assuredly in their direction, >> givign myself the look their momw oudl ahve, sort of thing. Not scared by >> them, not defiant, just pretending they just were kids and I noticed >> nothing scary. > shite, even i’d be nervous. with what ya hear on the news now adays > <shivers>

They were not the most serious criminals for sure, but often, being a few together makes people do thing they never woudl alone. Real glad I;d not have to go back to a lundromat….. Never saw gangs there befor,e at the old place, but was like two or three such incidents in the 1.5 hours or so I spent there this time around. As the weather gets colder, opened places without surveillance will get that way more I guess. There never is anyone workgn at that laundromat on weeknds, people just come and go, no attendee at all. Tells you how quiet this town has been up to now… I really have the impression the crime rate is going straight up, and I can not help but see it as linked to the new city they formed by joning a bunch of towns under a same city Hall. All seems to go to the old Gatineau and Aylmer, nd this old place which used to be the residential one and the surrounding tows the welfare ones 50 years ago –even 20, still- now is becoming the dump for welfare and gangs, bercause the new city will only do things for their old towns, and nothign at all be invested in Hull save for a highway that just kills more of the poor neighborhoods (laundromat is exactly by where tey are building anew highway extension, in the middleof the city, to serve Aylmer, one of the ex welfare dumps that now is investment to project developers and thew likes, where Hull is pretty much built. There no longer is a downtown to Hull, all is in Gatineau, soem in Aylmer…In aylmer, soem are set on fire criminally to rebuild a new most likely, or to instal new projects… Actibvvities and centres are all in the old Gatineau, which had no downtown ever in its construction as it treuelyw as formed by welfare people from a generation to the next building shacks by the tracks and then around those here and there. It was known as swamp and flood land. Stores opened later, with no downton, and in the last decade or two, the old city of Gatineau, thanks to coorruption such at the city hall elvel that the government had to interveine, started development projects for houses with their contractor buddies, and took some land, expulsing peope, to build a gant shopping centre. The shoppign centre was what gave life to that town and made ours completely crash. You find very few stores here, and whatever shoppign centre is deserted, with closed empty stores everywhere. They also managed to have all bars in Hull close, and started opening some in Gatineau to create a faux dowtown that later started developing around two areas. As used to be here, the main and St-Joseph. I was completely against the fusion of those cities. I tried and tried to tell people our taxes woudl only go u and only the old Gatoneau and Aylmer would gain from it, as we;d be left to die. But everyoen actually gobbled the promises of lower taxes (doh!) where they were told to not come and cry to me the next year when they got their bill. The next biull showed a substantial increase in municipal taxes, the oen after even more, etc. One of them moaned about it one day and was given the forty look by me, and lowered his head and mumbled that :they ahd said…"… Like rigggght, They would try and get elected telling poeple "your taxes will rise 40 percent a year and your town will become a gost town overnight". >> But was glad to see them get out, if I waited a moment to be sure they >> were not in the parking lot before I elft. >> Sure glad it was most lilely the last tiem I went as this town is fast >> changing to a real bunch of street gangs, vandals, mainly, with graffitis >> all over and vvandalising stuff, just to get frustratiosn out of to try and >> get some attention, be it negative. >> Just before them , another homeless guy got in to warm up and he looked >> nto too fit….probably just was shy and nervosu to be told to get aout f >> no one bugged him….But he stodd there, too close to me for conmfort. > in some cases, theres nothing for teens to do, no place of their own to > hang out,

Exactly. There is not even a downtown area whre cops or security coudl foicus. It is vandalism expressing frustratiosn and done on just about any street it would happen to fall on. The next street to mine was painted with graffitis and the likes last weekend… I give an amount, not much, unable to but still, to the neighborhood next to mie for activities to be made and a centre for youth to have stuff an actoivities, a place where they can gather, play pool or pin ball or whatever, on each pay day. If it is not my neighborhood, it is right next to it and starting to overflow on ours as well. Might as well try ad do soemthign now….  >  >> >> An before those, a few guys got in that did not inspoire me distust, just >> chit chattign oegther as if warming up or gettign away from the cold >> strong winds we have today. Seemed so to me so that did not scare me, the >> aves fom them was okay. Minding their bsiness. >> A they elft, the last oen that passed the door, where I did not notice >> their faces or anything, nor who elft in what orde no coudl see the >> doorway from where I was, went : >> -Bye, Chloe! > you didn’nt reconize me? :p

LOL:) My heart skipped a beat reading that. For all I know, could have been you;-)!  > – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> I thought : >> ????????????????????  must ahve dreamt….Nah. Canlt

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Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > Ghost (night-ri…@Cookieshaw.ca) writes: >>Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >>>Talk about a loneliness support ng. >>>I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >>>Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >>>supported out of lonelienss;-) >>>Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >>>Just now seemign to come out of it. >>i’ve been like that since sometime last week, feeling a lil better today >>(sunday) > Physically…? > Spikolodgigiddyy? > Both?

went through a cras : > Been feeling physically very bad Friday night and Sat, nauseous, tooth and > face lancing, that side of the skull feeling covered with water, which did > not help the spikolodgigiddily yayay side. When one uses all they have of > reserve of positive thoughts with n new input from life in weeks, staying > hoem sick, their reserves getlow where a bit sicker makes them run out.

i know what you mean > I amnaged of I cried today, just sheer fleh exuastion.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{Chloe}}}}}}}}}}}} > By now the lack of light affects me. We had a bitsy bit yesterday, but > that was it for the last 7-8 dys, where the days also got shorter real > suddenly. which means less hours of whatevr light -or lack of- to live on. > Whgile I do not suffer from depression or manic depression, I learned that > after three staright days without light, usually after 5 even more > noticeably so, my batteries run lower. > Staring at the completely black floors (dog food, bird stuff, just filth > all over)

<looks around> looks ok to me :)   and thinking of hwo I only had this weekend and the next to not – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> emabrass my sister when friends of hers (if not real pro movers) move her > ex washign machines into my dumpy plavce, it got to look sdiscouragng to > not be able to moe at all on Sunday and be so dead drained today. > Just back from the laundromat… > Went to the old place, not carign foe the sunday hurs of the new > laundromat closer to my place-closes at 2:30 P.M. on Sundays, what a silly > thing:(. > At the old one, it was very quiet and near dead. Only one guy at forst. I > think I saw him there before. Younger than me, I thought in his late > twenties til I saw him again later and realized he probably is in his > 3-s-40s. Too bad I did not notice before as he made a nice smile as he saw > me walk in…..Me thought t was a kid confusing me froma  distance for a > teen, hah. That’ll teach me to try and pick ‘[em my age and not in the > craddle. Shuld get them int eh craddeso theyc an be in hape to clean my > place and do my laundry heheeh:). > Anyway. > Went nice and smooth but was a bt nervous as just as I was about to leave > three tens looking like the lil gang ty[e got in, tryign to forst break in > through a door that was locked, not thinking of trying the side where the > doors were wifde opened for fresh air. > Then the next thign I knew they were inside and staring at the change > machine and planning hwo to break into it… > I glanced around, There was the same guy that smiled hi at me (though inf > act might have been both a guy in his twentis and later that one in his > 30s-40s, I am a very bad physionomist and do not rememebr faces fast, so…). > Glanced hsi way to see if he stillw as there as the teens (early 20s in > fact, 19-12 sort of kids) were elbowing ech other looking myw ay. Did not > want to eye the other guy either not to be stcuk with some hero syndrime > guy uness my life woudl depend on it…Buyt gave myself a serious absorbed > look, tehn seign they stull were starign my way seeming to have some > confused plan trygn to simmer, I loked more assuredly in their direction, > givign myself the look their momw oudl ahve, sort of thing. Not scared by > them, not defiant, just pretending they just were kids and I noticed > nothing scary.

shite, even i’d be nervous. with what ya hear on the news now adays <shivers> > But was glad to see them get out, if I waited a moment to be sure they > were not in the parking lot before I elft. > Sure glad it was most lilely the last tiem I went as this town is fast > changing to a real bunch of street gangs, vandals, mainly, with graffitis > all over and vvandalising stuff, just to get frustratiosn out of to try and > get some attention, be it negative. > Just before them , another homeless guy got in to warm up and he looked > nto too fit….probably just was shy and nervosu to be told to get aout f > no one bugged him….But he stodd there, too close to me for conmfort.

in some cases, theres nothing for teens to do, no place of their own to hang out, > An before those, a few guys got in that did not inspoire me distust, just > chit chattign oegther as if warming up or gettign away from the cold > strong winds we have today. Seemed so to me so that did not scare me, the > aves fom them was okay. Minding their bsiness. > A they elft, the last oen that passed the door, where I did not notice > their faces or anything, nor who elft in what orde no coudl see the > doorway from where I was, went : > -Bye, Chloe!

you didn’nt reconize me? :p > I thought : > ????????????????????  must ahve dreamt….Nah. Canlt be… > But am prtty sure that was what I heard, in English.

i’ve had that happen to which left me saying to myself, who T.F was that?? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For the life of me, not oen clue who that coudl ever have been…. > These guys were maybe 3 or 4 together, and two or three of them sort of > ran into each other in the parking lot of the garage by the laundromat, > closed garage…Theys eemed a bunch of buddies…One looked my way a bit, > but more liek someoen distacted, not really looking o so I thought, Maybe > all that tiem he knew me and waited for me to wave hi. > Then got in the laundromat wondeign if I would reconize him and say hi, > but I never did give a direct look at all…Jst doing the laundry…. > Then as they elft, oen of thm again, coudl not see them from where I was, > going "Bye Chloe" as I said just before passing the door to get out. > Hm. > Not really a place I;d wanna be seen LOL:), as I always wear dorty clothes > to go to the laundry and never take my shower before cause I get so hot > sometimes wih the sallergies bugging me to death in there, that I take one > once back home, simply. Once I can put clean fresh clothes on after my shower. > Maybe I heard wrong, but I really dont see who else they coudl have saoid > bye to. Surely not the other guy, he did not react at all. > What crossed my mind a minute or two after I clicked on what the guy said > was "EEEK! Soemoen thatr eads me ont eh net and knew I was gonan do > laundry today???? EEeek!" > Mpft:) > But not the slightes clue. No one knows me anymore in thsi town anyway. > Dd not choke too much today as there wa practcally no one there today, so > no perfumed anti-statics. Plus there was a nice striogn wind coming n > fromt eh opened door, so that helped:)

good :) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Still, gl;ad it is over. May the new machines really get here and may they > darn work for a change, again, Sick and tired of paying for used stuff > that does not work. I took the risk only cause they are my sisters and > cause they were at a codo of hers that she rented before and just sold…. > I.e. woud not trust as much f iot was her own she was ridding of, the oen > she woudl be using, as that woudl make me wodner why she is selling the. I > just he she will nto make a switch or sell them to someoen else and get me > a cheap pair thnkign I never saw them and one set or the other, bah. Cause > to me, used by tenants a fe eyars is safer than used by owners a fe years. > The last oen my sister gave me I did not pay for, someone was ridding of > them as they sat in their shed for a year. But I was not told they sat ina >  shed for a year at all and my feelign was that semoen took the set that > was "for me" and gave me theirs instead, wehre they never worked properly. > Anyway. > Evcer so so glad I coudl manage the laundry and that ist is done…Of > course I mean a few clothes to wear and a blanket to sleep under, as the > rest si pied up waiting for the machnes. hard to make the hosue clean by > now without the machines, as the crutaisn are just absolutely disgisting. > I;d need the machiens to make it rpesentable before my sister comes in to > dliver the machiens to not emvbaraass her, heh. > The old oen still has water in it I never empties completely,. Ginna smell > real bad when I empty that as I can with some container/can…Bleh.

you just need a close pin ;) > And then all thew dust and flufs in the basement….Mommy!!

you can goto a drug store and buy a mask that covers your mouth and nose ;) Caughing too – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> muc these last weeks (since end of July or early August) to gave gone to > the basement and seweep dist under the stairs.Must be awful dwn there…. > Ad only oen weekend left to do it as the machines are supposed to arrive > the Friday 28th. Dunno hwo I will make it to be here, bu I must given the > dogs… > Hope they will give me a time of day so I can take time off for that from > work. All I need to do is book ahead and make it no more than 3 hours. > KNowing me, the weekend they will be stet and work, they shoudl run aroudn > the clock, and not stop until eveythign in this friggen hosue has been done. > The entire unpacking I was dogn and basement sorting was left there cause > of no washer, where there too that got all messy. > One thign for sure, the day I get a house the machines will be on the > friggen main floo. I never understodo what the idea of letting clothes > wrinkle ina  dryer in soem basement ever was….:( > Down he stairs to wash, up again, dsown again to put in dryer, up again, > down again to go check if it is dry a few time,s then you always end up > mising it when it stops and have all your clothes wrikled. > Its about time I am done with laundromats,. So many clothes

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Response:

"paneon" (paneon@sdf_dot_lonestar.org) writes: >> >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. >> >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >> > hmmph… I was lonely in here on Saturday night… >> > /me stamps foot and checks watch. >> Sunday here by now…. >> Monday for you or are you already Tuesday when you read this?;-) > Nope – still got 4-and-a-half days until my next weekend… > (*groan*)

Oh, go ahead, rub it in;-) Monday morning, 5:58 A.M. here… And so dizzy with the ear bugging me that I wham into walls… Hopefully it will pass before I have to drive. Usually does… (I wake up at 3 or 4 for it to have time to balance itself before I leave at 7:45 or so. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> >> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >> >> supported out of lonelienss;-) >> >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >> >> Just now seemign to come out of it. >> >> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able >> >> to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than >> >> survive…. >> >> In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) >> >> Pant pant pant. >> >> Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and > ever…. >> >> The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. >> >> Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. >> >> Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. >> >> This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. >> >> Yay! >> >> The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi > time >> >> and keep working, for a change. >> >> I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets > and >> >> pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. >> >> Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping > on >> >> things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens > will >> >> have to wait. >> > (*shudder*) Don’t talk about Christmas shopping. It’s only October! You >> > trying to give me a stress embolism? >> Nah, I just garb things under five bucks that are n special before all >> prices are jacked up. Most thingies are 1.99 to 4.99 max that I buy, if I >> got en at 6.99 that was okay. >> So far got an alarm clock for my youngest brother, a book for the oldest. >> e llil lambs that re funny for me, cause I hope to make a XNas scenary >> (English?) under the XMas tree one day (nativity scene) but hope to make >> it with some touch of happy nice humour to it: one lamb is sitting on its >> derriere, the other is laying on its belly, rear legs bent u feet dnagling >> obver its back, head resting on its hands (that oen will be watchng baby >> Jesus up close one day in that nativity scene) and one is made to be >> erched in the air, all legs extended as if jumping high over somehing >> where I might put it on th roof of the stable or stuck at the top of some >> nearby tree, shalls ee. Nothign else to make the nativity scene with but >> it will be a project over many years as I want each piece to both be >> unique, not made for that but used for that, each fitting the size of the >> other, and each bought for some special humour touch to it, hich can not >> be done over night… >> Oh, I have a recipe book for chinese cooking, and have ordered 6 small ons >> too for 4.999 where I can split them among nieces as a lil thing to put in >> their baskets if I ever end up doing a kitchen basket for each, to make it >> different from the perfume and soap and incense (scent basket) last > XMas… >> Ll thing or two I forget here and there. Again, just a few of the cheap >> presents, where I give kiddo a mix of small cheap one,s medium ones and >> 2-3 bigger ones, : being only me and him, only one present each would make >> the tree look naked and sad. So we always throw in things just ti make >> more boxes:). >>   >  > the horror… the horror… >> Are you good at doing things from scartch, with your hands? >> Those are always my favorite sort of present. Always unique then and mad >> with lots of thoughts. Maybe you coudl start ahead of time and do >> something like that, hand made? > God no – My artistic ability struggles with to cope with the mechanics of > gift-wrap, let alone hand-crafted packages of joy for relatives > miscellaneous.

Then offer people some gift wrap paper, hand made. This way you donlt have to wrap it, and you leave them the dirty job:) So then, any talent with your feet maybe?;-)  > > (-paneon)

Response:

> >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. > >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! > > hmmph… I was lonely in here on Saturday night… > > /me stamps foot and checks watch. > Sunday here by now…. > Monday for you or are you already Tuesday when you read this?;-)

Nope – still got 4-and-a-half days until my next weekend… (*groan*) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me > >> supported out of lonelienss;-) > >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. > >> Just now seemign to come out of it. > >> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able > >> to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than > >> survive…. > >> In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) > >> Pant pant pant. > >> Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. > >> The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. > >> Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. > >> Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. > >> This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. > >> Yay! > >> The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time > >> and keep working, for a change. > >> I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and > >> pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. > >> Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on > >> things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will > >> have to wait. > > (*shudder*) Don’t talk about Christmas shopping. It’s only October! You > > trying to give me a stress embolism? > Nah, I just garb things under five bucks that are n special before all > prices are jacked up. Most thingies are 1.99 to 4.99 max that I buy, if I > got en at 6.99 that was okay. > So far got an alarm clock for my youngest brother, a book for the oldest. > e llil lambs that re funny for me, cause I hope to make a XNas scenary > (English?) under the XMas tree one day (nativity scene) but hope to make > it with some touch of happy nice humour to it: one lamb is sitting on its > derriere, the other is laying on its belly, rear legs bent u feet dnagling > obver its back, head resting on its hands (that oen will be watchng baby > Jesus up close one day in that nativity scene) and one is made to be > erched in the air, all legs extended as if jumping high over somehing > where I might put it on th roof of the stable or stuck at the top of some > nearby tree, shalls ee. Nothign else to make the nativity scene with but > it will be a project over many years as I want each piece to both be > unique, not made for that but used for that, each fitting the size of the > other, and each bought for some special humour touch to it, hich can not > be done over night… > Oh, I have a recipe book for chinese cooking, and have ordered 6 small ons > too for 4.999 where I can split them among nieces as a lil thing to put in > their baskets if I ever end up doing a kitchen basket for each, to make it > different from the perfume and soap and incense (scent basket) last XMas… > Ll thing or two I forget here and there. Again, just a few of the cheap > presents, where I give kiddo a mix of small cheap one,s medium ones and > 2-3 bigger ones, : being only me and him, only one present each would make > the tree look naked and sad. So we always throw in things just ti make > more boxes:). >   >  > the horror… the horror… > Are you good at doing things from scartch, with your hands? > Those are always my favorite sort of present. Always unique then and mad > with lots of thoughts. Maybe you coudl start ahead of time and do > something like that, hand made?

God no – My artistic ability struggles with to cope with the mechanics of gift-wrap, let alone hand-crafted packages of joy for relatives miscellaneous. (-paneon)

Response:

"paneon" (paneon@sdf_dot_lonestar.org) writes: >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! > hmmph… I was lonely in here on Saturday night… > /me stamps foot and checks watch.

Sunday here by now…. Monday for you or are you already Tuesday when you read this?;-) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >> supported out of lonelienss;-) >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >> Just now seemign to come out of it. >> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able >> to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than >> survive…. >> In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) >> Pant pant pant. >> Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. >> The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. >> Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. >> Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. >> This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. >> Yay! >> The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time >> and keep working, for a change. >> I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and >> pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. >> Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on >> things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will >> have to wait. > (*shudder*) Don’t talk about Christmas shopping. It’s only October! You > trying to give me a stress embolism?

Nah, I just garb things under five bucks that are n special before all prices are jacked up. Most thingies are 1.99 to 4.99 max that I buy, if I got en at 6.99 that was okay. So far got an alarm clock for my youngest brother, a book for the oldest. e llil lambs that re funny for me, cause I hope to make a XNas scenary (English?) under the XMas tree one day (nativity scene) but hope to make it with some touch of happy nice humour to it: one lamb is sitting on its derriere, the other is laying on its belly, rear legs bent u feet dnagling obver its back, head resting on its hands (that oen will be watchng baby Jesus up close one day in that nativity scene) and one is made to be erched in the air, all legs extended as if jumping high over somehing where I might put it on th roof of the stable or stuck at the top of some nearby tree, shalls ee. Nothign else to make the nativity scene with but it will be a project over many years as I want each piece to both be unique, not made for that but used for that, each fitting the size of the other, and each bought for some special humour touch to it, hich can not be done over night… Oh, I have a recipe book for chinese cooking, and have ordered 6 small ons too for 4.999 where I can split them among nieces as a lil thing to put in their baskets if I ever end up doing a kitchen basket for each, to make it different from the perfume and soap and incense (scent basket) last XMas… Ll thing or two I forget here and there. Again, just a few of the cheap presents, where I give kiddo a mix of small cheap one,s medium ones and 2-3 bigger ones, : being only me and him, only one present each would make the tree look naked and sad. So we always throw in things just ti make more boxes:).   >  > the horror… the horror… Are you good at doing things from scartch, with your hands? Those are always my favorite sort of present. Always unique then and mad with lots of thoughts. Maybe you coudl start ahead of time and do something like that, hand made?  >  >  >> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room with the >> pay checks… >> It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the yard >> stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back pain does >> not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen rang, I sparng >> from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back twistign something teh >> wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded like when it s one of those >> commercal automatic dialers to get your number for survey lists:( >> A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if I;d >> not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on >> floors…yet I must get things done somehow. >> The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work given >> the citrus at work. >> But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I feel >> weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and energy > drained. >> Takes patience….. >> Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for the >> body to get back on its feet…. >> Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the ast >> time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it played this >> week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut that very minute >> for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome Superman who had given up >> his powers and was told he could not have them back, got them back anyway. >> Talk about an important mionute in the story to cut out –or to sleep >> through:). >> All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal >> that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he >> inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him powahs >> again….? >> I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute anyway. >> Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who plays Lois). >> I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role as he >> is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way to play but >> I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had to be played >> that way. >> Babble babble. >> Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday night, >> everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, obviously;-) >> La’er. > yep – I’m paired up all right. I’ve got an arthritic flatualant dog to look > after. > /me wanders off grumbling….

LOL:) One of the two is flatulent since brth, Lad. I say Scotty beam *him* up!!;-) Then poor Eat-Eat is so bad…This weekend with the rain he did not even try to get up to do his things, twice, doing under hmself…I hope he manages better now, as I;d hate to ahve to have hm -or any pet- put under. He did get up after it stopped raining though to go out, But makes for a depressing sort of time to constantly have "death" on my mind, with wondering if my dog made the night since two years nw, each night, and with wondering if my mom will be there tomorrow, next week, etc…. Just so happens that all that is dear to me from mom to dogs to birds will all be of old age and dying of old age time at the same time…. Tough to then constantly bring one’s self back to lively thoughts each morning. Right now, if you were nearby and had warm hands, I;d beg you to follow me all day puttign your warm hands on my lower back. Got soem cold there specially on the left side, it seems…I think I figured out why. I sleep on the couch since years, for one thing, to not be far in case somethign bd woudl happen to the aging dogs. Then there is a draft near the couch due to the patio door, even when closed: cold hittign the gl;ass doors anyway. And the blanket I had was a sort of comforter, not doubled, and in cotton, cold on the bones like cotton can be…. This morning, as lad sneaked up and took my pillow after I went to the washroom, I pulled it from under him and slept with my ehad the other way, not oving him, that left ide then feeling the cold blanket instantly and knowign where the pain came from then. Cold draft and cotton blankets. Sigh… I so need a weekend or 16 in a row with no flu and n pain to be able to catch u on very very urgent clean up in here. With all tem pets, being sick sicne end of Jly makes it so that the place coud be condemned by the city if anyone walked in and saw the stae it is in. Amd sicne some poele are coming to move the old washer and druer out and get the new ones in….ARGH. It needs done and two weekends woudl not ahve been enough, and one wqas wasted on my silly lower back aching. Gotta do the aundromat thing this morning or earerly afternoon as they decided to close at 2:30 on Sundays now (talk aboutbad management:()… Hope the lower back warms up before then…. Hmpf. Did not sleep enough, with waking up to try and spy if Eat Eat was breathing…. If he was the one that farts I coudl know he was alive by the smell, but nope, it is the other one that does;-);-) C  >  > (-paneon) > —

Response:

Your Name Here=Harvey (k…@ing.notin.aus) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <ditjab$5g…@theodyn.ncf.ca>, bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says… >>> The irony of life – Superman gets put into a wheelchair. >>Indeed. Irony is way too weak a word, and not qwuite it either. Tragedy is >>closer, maybe… >>I always wondered if in a way it was not a relief to nto ave to meet fans >>expectign hm to fly to their rescue al the time…. >>Or if tyo hm, the challenge was exctly like a superman >>conquest….Conquering the impossible…. >>But how so so so s hard this must have been to him….To anyone it must be >>so horrible:(….But to have to make it before the eyes of super expecting >>demanding fans….. >>I winder if t was a stimulant or a downer for him, the fact that fans >>would expect Superman to get out of it in a phone booth moment. >>I actually rememebr happenign to see his fall… >>And as he fell and did not move, saying out loud to my father then "PO >>lord…can you imagine if he ws paralysed? Aw, man, the awful horrible >>tragic irony:(". >>I remember watching the news to hear if he was okay…. >>Then a show where he was to have hs forst major public apearance where >>everyoen dreamt of a miracle all right and of seing the curtain open to a >>man walking against all odds…But nope…He was in his wheel chair….But >>smiling THAT big whch was worth ever so much….. >>I wonder hwo much those in wheelchairs found inspiration in him and his >>life story….I guess they coudl not say "But you donlt understand! I had >>a life before!", givenm that they knew what his life was like before…. >>> Sonny Bono dies while skiing. (He hit a tree?) >>It did not hit me as a giant being crushed, somehow (?). >>Maybe more like an opportinust finding opportunity knocked "head on" one time >>too many…I have the impression tat somehtign in his life was about >>opportunism and just happening to be at a certain moment at a certain >>time, and using others as much as the moment, wher without others nor >>these moment,s he’d never have been known. In short…I did not see the >>talent in him. >>(sorry to his fans). >>> There is some hope for spinal injuries, via stemm cells. >>> They don’t know how it quite works, but they are trialing it out. >>> We have those magic stemm cells in us, but they are so few, naturally. >>> Scientists zip them out of you, multiply them in the lab, and inject them >>> back in, but into needed areas. >>What is declared for money grants is not near done just for that much. >>Canada declared it found a vaccine agaist aids this year. But have not >>heard of any vaccination clinic in the making yet eihter…;-) >>It will come. Maybe when we are old(er?:)). Maybe after we are gone. >>But oine day will come where all dna will be traced and poeple re-created to >>populate new planets. >>Sometime some thoughts about a book about their finding one more person’s >>dna when they will have thought they got it all or when it will only hapen >>once in a blue moon pops in my head… >>Sometiems I then think hat maybe they woudl not re-create poeple that >>coudl be id as Hitler and as saddists, where then maybe that will happen >>to coincide with their not beign "waken up for eternal life". >>But then again the world as it is woudl be insane enough to re-create them >>thinking they are grand enogh to keep them in the right path…. >>Unless the really get to understand all genes and what makes t so that in >>37 lives, they still woudl be the exact same personalities with the same dna >>sequence. >>Will there one day be museums of horrors where the real saddists >>ones throughout history will be kept and fed for others to see them go > through >>glass walls? >>And where would Eistein be put? >>In the good club or the bad one? >>Tlaking about irony, would it not be quite ""ironic" if science decded to >>put him in the "bad bunch" club…" Would they be impartial enough to even >>asses where to put him?;-) >>> Harvey > A person is not their physical body. Not really. > In that the physical requires a ’spirit’ within to animate it. > We think of that spirit in terms of personality and consciousness. > Let’s say you can clone a Hitler, from some DNA that is left behind, > like a hair sample. Not a good example, as some scientist will say that > is not possible, it has to be something more substantial than that. > Anyway you have recreated before you, some physical body, that looks like > Hitler, in the flesh, and it’s animated. It’s alive! > You won’t have the mind of Hitler inside, unless he decides to be that > person in that body. What you’ll get is some other entity, who wishes > to go through the human experience (again) here. Someone who may look like > Hitler, and talk like him? (if raised with a similar language background) – > but he wouldn’t think like him, or be him.

I most cases, no. In some, it might be more unavoidavble than we think,. It woudl not eb the same life events that woudl form the cahracter, ad a genetic mental illness, for instance, might have other manifestatiosn than a hatred of jew or whatever ese oen had for a fixation/saddistic object. But f the mental inlness is genetic, then there will be a mental illness, and if it was say saddism, odd are it would be again, if again oit might be reflected on other things depending on the life experience of a clone, I imagine. In most cases ilnesses coudl be altered just by the life experiewnces being other, But perhaps in marked dementia cases, it woudl still rmain of a same category. Eg: extreme saddist/power monger. But generally seaking, yes, I happen to agree with you that the life events woudl shape the person entirely differently. Even physical apearnce woudl then be changed.  >  > You know the nature versus nurture debate. > > If Hitler did wish to live again here, in some body, that somebody > recreates (in the above example) – he wouldn’t be the same old Hitler, he’ll > be a different person altogether. If he has the same attributes and abilities, > desires, etc, maybe he would be a worse? Hitler than he was previously. > If he desired to pursue the same course in life again. > He has a choice.

You are talking reincarnation. I was just throwign creative ideas and associations, not in a belief way at all. Not beliefs nor propaganda, just chit chating and throwing ideas unreflected. > Harvey

Response:

In article <ditjab$5g…@theodyn.ncf.ca>, bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> The irony of life – Superman gets put into a wheelchair. >Indeed. Irony is way too weak a word, and not qwuite it either. Tragedy is >closer, maybe… >I always wondered if in a way it was not a relief to nto ave to meet fans >expectign hm to fly to their rescue al the time…. >Or if tyo hm, the challenge was exctly like a superman >conquest….Conquering the impossible…. >But how so so so s hard this must have been to him….To anyone it must be >so horrible:(….But to have to make it before the eyes of super expecting >demanding fans….. >I winder if t was a stimulant or a downer for him, the fact that fans >would expect Superman to get out of it in a phone booth moment. >I actually rememebr happenign to see his fall… >And as he fell and did not move, saying out loud to my father then "PO >lord…can you imagine if he ws paralysed? Aw, man, the awful horrible >tragic irony:(". >I remember watching the news to hear if he was okay…. >Then a show where he was to have hs forst major public apearance where >everyoen dreamt of a miracle all right and of seing the curtain open to a >man walking against all odds…But nope…He was in his wheel chair….But >smiling THAT big whch was worth ever so much….. >I wonder hwo much those in wheelchairs found inspiration in him and his >life story….I guess they coudl not say "But you donlt understand! I had >a life before!", givenm that they knew what his life was like before…. >> Sonny Bono dies while skiing. (He hit a tree?) >It did not hit me as a giant being crushed, somehow (?). >Maybe more like an opportinust finding opportunity knocked "head on" one time >too many…I have the impression tat somehtign in his life was about >opportunism and just happening to be at a certain moment at a certain >time, and using others as much as the moment, wher without others nor >these moment,s he’d never have been known. In short…I did not see the >talent in him. >(sorry to his fans). >> There is some hope for spinal injuries, via stemm cells. >> They don’t know how it quite works, but they are trialing it out. >> We have those magic stemm cells in us, but they are so few, naturally. >> Scientists zip them out of you, multiply them in the lab, and inject them >> back in, but into needed areas. >What is declared for money grants is not near done just for that much. >Canada declared it found a vaccine agaist aids this year. But have not >heard of any vaccination clinic in the making yet eihter…;-) >It will come. Maybe when we are old(er?:)). Maybe after we are gone. >But oine day will come where all dna will be traced and poeple re-created to >populate new planets. >Sometime some thoughts about a book about their finding one more person’s >dna when they will have thought they got it all or when it will only hapen >once in a blue moon pops in my head… >Sometiems I then think hat maybe they woudl not re-create poeple that >coudl be id as Hitler and as saddists, where then maybe that will happen >to coincide with their not beign "waken up for eternal life". >But then again the world as it is woudl be insane enough to re-create them >thinking they are grand enogh to keep them in the right path…. >Unless the really get to understand all genes and what makes t so that in >37 lives, they still woudl be the exact same personalities with the same dna >sequence. >Will there one day be museums of horrors where the real saddists >ones throughout history will be kept and fed for others to see them go through >glass walls? >And where would Eistein be put? >In the good club or the bad one? >Tlaking about irony, would it not be quite ""ironic" if science decded to >put him in the "bad bunch" club…" Would they be impartial enough to even >asses where to put him?;-) >> Harvey

A person is not their physical body. Not really. In that the physical requires a ’spirit’ within to animate it. We think of that spirit in terms of personality and consciousness. Let’s say you can clone a Hitler, from some DNA that is left behind, like a hair sample. Not a good example, as some scientist will say that is not possible, it has to be something more substantial than that. Anyway you have recreated before you, some physical body, that looks like Hitler, in the flesh, and it’s animated. It’s alive! You won’t have the mind of Hitler inside, unless he decides to be that person in that body. What you’ll get is some other entity, who wishes to go through the human experience (again) here. Someone who may look like Hitler, and talk like him? (if raised with a similar language background) – but he wouldn’t think like him, or be him. You know the nature versus nurture debate. If Hitler did wish to live again here, in some body, that somebody recreates (in the above example) – he wouldn’t be the same old Hitler, he’ll be a different person altogether. If he has the same attributes and abilities, desires, etc, maybe he would be a worse? Hitler than he was previously. If he desired to pursue the same course in life again. He has a choice. Harvey

Response:

Ghost (night-ri…@Cookieshaw.ca) writes: > Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >> supported out of lonelienss;-) >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >> Just now seemign to come out of it. > i’ve been like that since sometime last week, feeling a lil better today > (sunday)

Physically…? Spikolodgigiddyy? Both? Been feeling physically very bad Friday night and Sat, nauseous, tooth and face lancing, that side of the skull feeling covered with water, which did not help the spikolodgigiddily yayay side. When one uses all they have of reserve of positive thoughts with n new input from life in weeks, staying hoem sick, their reserves getlow where a bit sicker makes them run out. I amnaged of I cried today, just sheer fleh exuastion. By now the lack of light affects me. We had a bitsy bit yesterday, but that was it for the last 7-8 dys, where the days also got shorter real suddenly. which means less hours of whatevr light -or lack of- to live on. Whgile I do not suffer from depression or manic depression, I learned that after three staright days without light, usually after 5 even more noticeably so, my batteries run lower. Staring at the completely black floors (dog food, bird stuff, just filth all over) and thinking of hwo I only had this weekend and the next to not emabrass my sister when friends of hers (if not real pro movers) move her ex washign machines into my dumpy plavce, it got to look sdiscouragng to not be able to moe at all on Sunday and be so dead drained today. Just back from the laundromat… Went to the old place, not carign foe the sunday hurs of the new laundromat closer to my place-closes at 2:30 P.M. on Sundays, what a silly thing:(. At the old one, it was very quiet and near dead. Only one guy at forst. I think I saw him there before. Younger than me, I thought in his late twenties til I saw him again later and realized he probably is in his 3-s-40s. Too bad I did not notice before as he made a nice smile as he saw me walk in…..Me thought t was a kid confusing me froma  distance for a teen, hah. That’ll teach me to try and pick ‘[em my age and not in the craddle. Shuld get them int eh craddeso theyc an be in hape to clean my place and do my laundry heheeh:). Anyway. Went nice and smooth but was a bt nervous as just as I was about to leave three tens looking like the lil gang ty[e got in, tryign to forst break in through a door that was locked, not thinking of trying the side where the doors were wifde opened for fresh air. Then the next thign I knew they were inside and staring at the change machine and planning hwo to break into it… I glanced around, There was the same guy that smiled hi at me (though inf act might have been both a guy in his twentis and later that one in his 30s-40s, I am a very bad physionomist and do not rememebr faces fast, so…). Glanced hsi way to see if he stillw as there as the teens (early 20s in fact, 19-12 sort of kids) were elbowing ech other looking myw ay. Did not want to eye the other guy either not to be stcuk with some hero syndrime guy uness my life woudl depend on it…Buyt gave myself a serious absorbed look, tehn seign they stull were starign my way seeming to have some confused plan trygn to simmer, I loked more assuredly in their direction, givign myself the look their momw oudl ahve, sort of thing. Not scared by them, not defiant, just pretending they just were kids and I noticed nothing scary. But was glad to see them get out, if I waited a moment to be sure they were not in the parking lot before I elft. Sure glad it was most lilely the last tiem I went as this town is fast changing to a real bunch of street gangs, vandals, mainly, with graffitis all over and vvandalising stuff, just to get frustratiosn out of to try and get some attention, be it negative. Just before them , another homeless guy got in to warm up and he looked nto too fit….probably just was shy and nervosu to be told to get aout f no one bugged him….But he stodd there, too close to me for conmfort. An before those, a few guys got in that did not inspoire me distust, just chit chattign oegther as if warming up or gettign away from the cold strong winds we have today. Seemed so to me so that did not scare me, the aves fom them was okay. Minding their bsiness. A they elft, the last oen that passed the door, where I did not notice their faces or anything, nor who elft in what orde no coudl see the doorway from where I was, went : -Bye, Chloe! I thought : ????????????????????  must ahve dreamt….Nah. Canlt be… But am prtty sure that was what I heard, in English. For the life of me, not oen clue who that coudl ever have been…. These guys were maybe 3 or 4 together, and two or three of them sort of ran into each other in the parking lot of the garage by the laundromat, closed garage…Theys eemed a bunch of buddies…One looked my way a bit, but more liek someoen distacted, not really looking o so I thought, Maybe all that tiem he knew me and waited for me to wave hi. Then got in the laundromat wondeign if I would reconize him and say hi, but I never did give a direct look at all…Jst doing the laundry…. Then as they elft, oen of thm again, coudl not see them from where I was, going "Bye Chloe" as I said just before passing the door to get out. Hm. Not really a place I;d wanna be seen LOL:), as I always wear dorty clothes to go to the laundry and never take my shower before cause I get so hot sometimes wih the sallergies bugging me to death in there, that I take one once back home, simply. Once I can put clean fresh clothes on after my shower. Maybe I heard wrong, but I really dont see who else they coudl have saoid bye to. Surely not the other guy, he did not react at all. What crossed my mind a minute or two after I clicked on what the guy said was "EEEK! Soemoen thatr eads me ont eh net and knew I was gonan do laundry today???? EEeek!" Mpft:) But not the slightes clue. No one knows me anymore in thsi town anyway. Dd not choke too much today as there wa practcally no one there today, so no perfumed anti-statics. Plus there was a nice striogn wind coming n fromt eh opened door, so that helped:) Still, gl;ad it is over. May the new machines really get here and may they darn work for a change, again, Sick and tired of paying for used stuff that does not work. I took the risk only cause they are my sisters and cause they were at a codo of hers that she rented before and just sold…. I.e. woud not trust as much f iot was her own she was ridding of, the oen she woudl be using, as that woudl make me wodner why she is selling the. I just he she will nto make a switch or sell them to someoen else and get me a cheap pair thnkign I never saw them and one set or the other, bah. Cause to me, used by tenants a fe eyars is safer than used by owners a fe years. The last oen my sister gave me I did not pay for, someone was ridding of them as they sat in their shed for a year. But I was not told they sat ina  shed for a year at all and my feelign was that semoen took the set that was "for me" and gave me theirs instead, wehre they never worked properly. Anyway. Evcer so so glad I coudl manage the laundry and that ist is done…Of course I mean a few clothes to wear and a blanket to sleep under, as the rest si pied up waiting for the machnes. hard to make the hosue clean by now without the machines, as the crutaisn are just absolutely disgisting. I;d need the machiens to make it rpesentable before my sister comes in to dliver the machiens to not emvbaraass her, heh. The old oen still has water in it I never empties completely,. Ginna smell real bad when I empty that as I can with some container/can…Bleh. And then all thew dust and flufs in the basement….Mommy!! Caughing too muc these last weeks (since end of July or early August) to gave gone to the basement and seweep dist under the stairs.Must be awful dwn there…. Ad only oen weekend left to do it as the machines are supposed to arrive the Friday 28th. Dunno hwo I will make it to be here, bu I must given the dogs… Hope they will give me a time of day so I can take time off for that from work. All I need to do is book ahead and make it no more than 3 hours. KNowing me, the weekend they will be stet and work, they shoudl run aroudn the clock, and not stop until eveythign in this friggen hosue has been done. The entire unpacking I was dogn and basement sorting was left there cause of no washer, where there too that got all messy. One thign for sure, the day I get a house the machines will be on the friggen main floo. I never understodo what the idea of letting clothes wrinkle ina  dryer in soem basement ever was….:( Down he stairs to wash, up again, dsown again to put in dryer, up again, down again to go check if it is dry a few time,s then you always end up mising it when it stops and have all your clothes wrikled. Its about time I am done with laundromats,. So many clothes got staned with machines, or liek today, some were ruend case someoen elft kl;neenex yuks in a washe that all got stuck on my sweaters….Or one washer if you set it on cold woudl only give hot where two more tops shank. Got nothign left and I rfuse to buy to have some place I pay for a service ruin the new stuff too, nah! Stopped at bank, paid bills….a balance left on gas, on cale and on power. But visa and half of the others already paid…. Depending on the paycheck and f it was a raise I ahd the last time or just a one tiem adjustment, I will either come clear this pay or the next for bills, and the next (in 17 fdays) for the rents, where there ill be soem elft in Mid November only, where I have to put 600 aside for mom, and put aside for vsa to pay the deember rent on he pay of late Nvember, then all in tip top dshape, only curret blls, … read more »

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" (T…@T.com) writes: > > Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. > >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! > >> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making > me >> supported out of lonelienss;-) > >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. > >> Just now seemign to come out of it. > >> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being > >> able to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit > >> more than survive…. > >> In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) > >> Pant pant pant. > >> Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and > >> ever…. > >> The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. > >> Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. > >> Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. > >> This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. > >> Yay! > >> The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi > >> time and keep working, for a change. > >> I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty > blankets >> and pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes > and…etc to wash.  >> > >> Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but > >> jumping on things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The > >> bigger oens will have to wait. > >> But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room > >> with the pay checks… > >> It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the > >> yard stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back > >> pain does not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen > >> rang, I sparng from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back > >> twistign something teh wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. > Sounded >> like when it s one of those commercal automatic dialers to > get your >> number for survey lists:( > >> A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, > if >> I;d not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work > on >> floors…yet I must get things done somehow. > >> The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work > >> given the citrus at work. > >> But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, > and I >> feel weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used > up and >> energy drained.  Takes patience….. > >> Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for > >> the body to get back on its feet…. > >> Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the > >> ast time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it > >> played this week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut > >> that very minute for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome > >> Superman who had given up his powers and was told he could not have > >> them back, got them back anyway.  Talk about an important mionute > in >> the story to cut out –or to sleep through:). > >> All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a > cristal >> that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I > figured he >> inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and > it gave him >> powahs again….? > >> I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute > >> anyway.  Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal > who >> plays Lois). > >> I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role > >> as he is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a > way >> to play but I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from > cartoons had >> to be played that way. > >> Babble babble. > >> Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday > >> night, everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or > two, >> obviously;-) > >> La’er. > > Im here and watching ren and stimpy > I think they got censured here a few years ago already. > > —

lol they did?! I have it on dvd. —

Response:

Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > Talk about a loneliness support ng. > I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! > Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me > supported out of lonelienss;-) > Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. > Just now seemign to come out of it.

i’ve been like that since sometime last week, feeling a lil better today (sunday) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able > to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than > survive…. > In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) > Pant pant pant. > Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. > The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. > Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. > Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. > This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. > Yay!

*input sound bite* <crowd cheers> :) > The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time > and keep working, for a change. > I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and > pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash.

if you can, save the pillows and curtains for the laundomat. > Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on > things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will > have to wait.

i don’t mind waiting ;) > But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room with the > pay checks… > It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the yard > stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back pain does > not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen rang, I sparng > from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back twistign something teh > wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded like when it s one of those > commercal automatic dialers to get your number for survey lists:(

thats the one thing i don’t miss about having a dog, yard clean up :p – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if I;d > not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on > floors…yet I must get things done somehow. > The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work given > the citrus at work. > But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I feel > weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and energy drained. > Takes patience….. > Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for the > body to get back on its feet…. > Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the ast > time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it played this > week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut that very minute > for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome Superman who had given up > his powers and was told he could not have them back, got them back anyway. > Talk about an important mionute in the story to cut out –or to sleep > through:). > All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal > that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he > inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him powahs > again….? > I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute anyway. > Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who plays Lois).

thought i could hear someone snoring :p > I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role as he > is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way to play but > I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had to be played > that way.

there are actors still like that today. > Babble babble.

yadda yadda yada ;) > Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday night, > everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, obviously;-) > La’er.

i was gonna reply to your post last night, and say we could cuddle together, but you’d be in bed and people might get the wrong idea :p ghost > —

– Ghost Misgiuded Angel – Updated Oct.12/05 http://members.shaw.ca/night-rider/home.html Weekly Walrus http://weeklywalrus.com/ #1 Webbrowser, http://www.mozilla.org/

Response:

"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" (T…@T.com) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >> "Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" (T…@T.com) writes: >> > Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >> >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. >> >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >> >> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making >> me >> supported out of lonelienss;-) >> >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >> >> Just now seemign to come out of it. >> >> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being >> >> able to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit >> >> more than survive…. >> >> In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) >> >> Pant pant pant. >> >> Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and >> >> ever…. >> >> The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. >> >> Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. >> >> Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. >> >> This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. >> >> Yay! >> >> The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi >> >> time and keep working, for a change. >> >> I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty >> blankets >> and pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes >> and…etc to wash.  >> >> >> Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but >> >> jumping on things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The >> >> bigger oens will have to wait. >> >> But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room >> >> with the pay checks… >> >> It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the >> >> yard stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back >> >> pain does not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen >> >> rang, I sparng from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back >> >> twistign something teh wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. >> Sounded >> like when it s one of those commercal automatic dialers to >> get your >> number for survey lists:( >> >> A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, >> if >> I;d not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work >> on >> floors…yet I must get things done somehow. >> >> The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work >> >> given the citrus at work. >> >> But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, >> and I >> feel weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used >> up and >> energy drained.  Takes patience….. >> >> Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for >> >> the body to get back on its feet…. >> >> Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the >> >> ast time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it >> >> played this week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut >> >> that very minute for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome >> >> Superman who had given up his powers and was told he could not have >> >> them back, got them back anyway.  Talk about an important mionute >> in >> the story to cut out –or to sleep through:). >> >> All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a >> cristal >> that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I >> figured he >> inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and >> it gave him >> powahs again….? >> >> I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute >> >> anyway.  Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal >> who >> plays Lois). >> >> I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role >> >> as he is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a >> way >> to play but I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from >> cartoons had >> to be played that way. >> >> Babble babble. >> >> Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday >> >> night, everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or >> two, >> obviously;-) >> >> La’er. >> > Im here and watching ren and stimpy >> I think they got censured here a few years ago already. >> > — > lol they did?! I have it on dvd. > —

I seem to rememebr that there was a whole issue about it. They forst played it at night. With the result that kiddo and my then bdf’s son would ake up at 2 or 3 A.M. to catch them live even if they woudl tape them:) Then they were gone nd we heard they were censured. That was in the 90s. I dunno now…. Again, I caught art of one episode a few weeks/mths ago on tv in the middle fo the nigh, so maybe they are back or maybe an episiode slipped through the censure…. I saw funnier things happen. Once, Radio Canada Televsion, he State tv that was very "correct" and was determined to so saty, bought a lil cartoon for an interlude. It was a La Fontaine Fable, "Le renard et le corbeau" (? The fox and the crow??). In it, a crow finds a pice of delicious chese, and a fox tries to flatter it thick o it gets all round and parqades and openes its beak and drops the chese. In the Fable, it works and the fox leaves wit the chese, and the moral is that "every falterrer feeds off those they flatter". I guess they saw the beginningof the cartoon and bougt it thinking it the classic Fble in cartoon, decent for any audence and any kids to hear and see then. One day, they apssed it as an interlude. Everyoen left he livign rom to get soenthign to drink but I stayed there watching it. Ad I laughed till it hurt cause the ending was changed. It had obviously been doen by Quebecers that apssed a fast oen to Radio Canada tv:). Near the end, as the fox flatters the crow thick, where the crow is supposed to happen to sing cause the fox wants it to dropp the chese it holds in its beak, telling it its voice must be even nicer than his feathers, the crow takes the chese and puts it under a wing safely and snaps back at the fox -Yo, dickhead! Do I look like a f…ing French-from-France crow to you??? Seing me punch the floor with laughter, no one believed me when they asked what was so funny and I told them. Until oen day it again played by accdent obviously and I shouted that everyoen stay in the livign room, that thatw as the very cartoon, and maybe they woudl not cut it and they coudl see what I emant. Sure enough, they all could see and ehar it and laughed with me this time. The r4et fo the conclusion was cut short as if someoen called and tod them of the big bad mistake at the end:):), but hey coudl not cut it fast enough:):) —

Response:

Your Name Here=Harvey (k…@ing.notin.aus) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <dis26t$av…@theodyn.ncf.ca>, bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says… >>Talk about a loneliness support ng. >>I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >>Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >>supported out of lonelienss;-) >>Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >>Just now seemign to come out of it. >>Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able >>to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than >>survive…. >>In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) >>Pant pant pant. >>Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. >>The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. >>Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. >>Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. >>This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. >>Yay! >>The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time >>and keep working, for a change. >>I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and >>pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. >>Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on >>things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will >>have to wait. >>But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room with the >>pay checks… >>It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the yard >>stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back pain does >>not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen rang, I sparng >>from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back twistign something teh >>wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded like when it s one of those >>commercal automatic dialers to get your number for survey lists:( >>A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if I;d >>not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on >>floors…yet I must get things done somehow. >>The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work given >>the citrus at work. >>But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I feel >>weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and energy drained. >>Takes patience….. >>Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for the >>body to get back on its feet…. >>Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the ast >>time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it played this >>week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut that very minute >>for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome Superman who had given up >>his powers and was told he could not have them back, got them back anyway. >>Talk about an important mionute in the story to cut out –or to sleep >>through:). >>All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal >>that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he >>inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him powahs >>again….? >>I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute anyway. >>Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who plays Lois). >>I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role as he >>is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way to play but >>I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had to be played >>that way. >>Babble babble. >>Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday night, >>everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, obviously;-) >>La’er. > The irony of life – Superman gets put into a wheelchair.

Indeed. Irony is way too weak a word, and not qwuite it either. Tragedy is closer, maybe… I always wondered if in a way it was not a relief to nto ave to meet fans expectign hm to fly to their rescue al the time…. Or if tyo hm, the challenge was exctly like a superman conquest….Conquering the impossible…. But how so so so s hard this must have been to him….To anyone it must be so horrible:(….But to have to make it before the eyes of super expecting demanding fans….. I winder if t was a stimulant or a downer for him, the fact that fans would expect Superman to get out of it in a phone booth moment. I actually rememebr happenign to see his fall… And as he fell and did not move, saying out loud to my father then "PO lord…can you imagine if he ws paralysed? Aw, man, the awful horrible tragic irony:(". I remember watching the news to hear if he was okay…. Then a show where he was to have hs forst major public apearance where everyoen dreamt of a miracle all right and of seing the curtain open to a man walking against all odds…But nope…He was in his wheel chair….But smiling THAT big whch was worth ever so much….. I wonder hwo much those in wheelchairs found inspiration in him and his life story….I guess they coudl not say "But you donlt understand! I had a life before!", givenm that they knew what his life was like before….  > > Sonny Bono dies while skiing. (He hit a tree?)

It did not hit me as a giant being crushed, somehow (?). Maybe more like an opportinust finding opportunity knocked "head on" one time too many…I have the impression tat somehtign in his life was about opportunism and just happening to be at a certain moment at a certain time, and using others as much as the moment, wher without others nor these moment,s he’d never have been known. In short…I did not see the talent in him. (sorry to his fans). > There is some hope for spinal injuries, via stemm cells. > They don’t know how it quite works, but they are trialing it out. > We have those magic stemm cells in us, but they are so few, naturally. > Scientists zip them out of you, multiply them in the lab, and inject them > back in, but into needed areas.

What is declared for money grants is not near done just for that much. Canada declared it found a vaccine agaist aids this year. But have not heard of any vaccination clinic in the making yet eihter…;-) It will come. Maybe when we are old(er?:)). Maybe after we are gone. But oine day will come where all dna will be traced and poeple re-created to populate new planets. Sometime some thoughts about a book about their finding one more person’s dna when they will have thought they got it all or when it will only hapen once in a blue moon pops in my head… Sometiems I then think hat maybe they woudl not re-create poeple that coudl be id as Hitler and as saddists, where then maybe that will happen to coincide with their not beign "waken up for eternal life". But then again the world as it is woudl be insane enough to re-create them thinking they are grand enogh to keep them in the right path…. Unless the really get to understand all genes and what makes t so that in 37 lives, they still woudl be the exact same personalities with the same dna sequence. Will there one day be museums of horrors where the real saddists ones throughout history will be kept and fed for others to see them go through glass walls? And where would Eistein be put? In the good club or the bad one? Tlaking about irony, would it not be quite ""ironic" if science decded to put him in the "bad bunch" club…" Would they be impartial enough to even asses where to put him?;-)  > > Harvey

Response:

poet (p…@asarian-host.net) writes: > X-No-Archive: yes > In article dis26t$av…@theodyn.ncf.ca, Eleonore Beaudoin at > bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA wrote on 10/15/05 18:09: >> I must doa good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! > lucky for you because i have a code.

Hum? > — > For more information about this posting service, contact: > h…@asarian-host.net — for all info about our server. > If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: > https://asarian-host.net/cgi-bin/signup.cgi

Response:

"Visi Caulk Mah Pnats" (T…@T.com) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: >> Talk about a loneliness support ng. >> I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >> supported out of lonelienss;-) >> Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >> Just now seemign to come out of it. >> Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being >> able to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit >> more than survive…. >> In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) >> Pant pant pant. >> Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and >> ever…. >> The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. >> Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. >> Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. >> This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. >> Yay! >> The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi >> time and keep working, for a change. >> I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets >> and pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. >> Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but >> jumping on things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The >> bigger oens will have to wait. >> But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room >> with the pay checks… >> It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the >> yard stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back >> pain does not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen >> rang, I sparng from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back >> twistign something teh wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded >> like when it s one of those commercal automatic dialers to get your >> number for survey lists:( >> A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if >> I;d not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on >> floors…yet I must get things done somehow. >> The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work >> given the citrus at work. >> But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I >> feel weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and >> energy drained.  Takes patience….. >> Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for >> the body to get back on its feet…. >> Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the >> ast time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it >> played this week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut >> that very minute for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome >> Superman who had given up his powers and was told he could not have >> them back, got them back anyway.  Talk about an important mionute in >> the story to cut out –or to sleep through:). >> All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal >> that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he >> inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him >> powahs again….? >> I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute >> anyway.  Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who >> plays Lois). >> I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role >> as he is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way >> to play but I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had >> to be played that way. >> Babble babble. >> Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday >> night, everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, >> obviously;-) >> La’er. > Im here and watching ren and stimpy

I think they got censured here a few years ago already. > —

Response:

> Talk about a loneliness support ng. > I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!!

hmmph… I was lonely in here on Saturday night… /me stamps foot and checks watch. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me > supported out of lonelienss;-) > Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. > Just now seemign to come out of it. > Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able > to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than > survive…. > In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) > Pant pant pant. > Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. > The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. > Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. > Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. > This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. > Yay! > The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time > and keep working, for a change. > I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and > pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. > Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on > things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will > have to wait.

(*shudder*) Don’t talk about Christmas shopping. It’s only October! You trying to give me a stress embolism? the horror… the horror… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room with the > pay checks… > It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the yard > stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back pain does > not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen rang, I sparng > from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back twistign something teh > wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded like when it s one of those > commercal automatic dialers to get your number for survey lists:( > A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if I;d > not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on > floors…yet I must get things done somehow. > The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work given > the citrus at work. > But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I feel > weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and energy drained. > Takes patience….. > Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for the > body to get back on its feet…. > Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the ast > time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it played this > week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut that very minute > for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome Superman who had given up > his powers and was told he could not have them back, got them back anyway. > Talk about an important mionute in the story to cut out –or to sleep > through:). > All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal > that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he > inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him powahs > again….? > I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute anyway. > Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who plays Lois). > I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role as he > is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way to play but > I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had to be played > that way. > Babble babble. > Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday night, > everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, obviously;-) > La’er.

yep – I’m paired up all right. I’ve got an arthritic flatualant dog to look after. /me wanders off grumbling…. (-paneon)

Response:

In article <dis26t$av…@theodyn.ncf.ca>, bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Talk about a loneliness support ng. >I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! >Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me >supported out of lonelienss;-) >Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. >Just now seemign to come out of it. >Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able >to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than >survive…. >In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) >Pant pant pant. >Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. >The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. >Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. >Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. >This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. >Yay! >The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time >and keep working, for a change. >I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and >pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. >Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on >things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will >have to wait. >But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room with the >pay checks… >It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the yard >stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back pain does >not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen rang, I sparng >from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back twistign something teh >wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded like when it s one of those >commercal automatic dialers to get your number for survey lists:( >A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if I;d >not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on >floors…yet I must get things done somehow. >The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work given >the citrus at work. >But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I feel >weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and energy drained. >Takes patience….. >Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for the >body to get back on its feet…. >Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the ast >time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it played this >week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut that very minute >for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome Superman who had given up >his powers and was told he could not have them back, got them back anyway. >Talk about an important mionute in the story to cut out –or to sleep >through:). >All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal >that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he >inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him powahs >again….? >I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute anyway. >Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who plays Lois). >I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role as he >is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way to play but >I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had to be played >that way. >Babble babble. >Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday night, >everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, obviously;-) >La’er.

The irony of life – Superman gets put into a wheelchair. Sonny Bono dies while skiing. (He hit a tree?) There is some hope for spinal injuries, via stemm cells. They don’t know how it quite works, but they are trialing it out. We have those magic stemm cells in us, but they are so few, naturally. Scientists zip them out of you, multiply them in the lab, and inject them back in, but into needed areas. Harvey

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > Talk about a loneliness support ng. > I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! > Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me > supported out of lonelienss;-) > Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. > Just now seemign to come out of it. > Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being > able to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit > more than survive…. > In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) > Pant pant pant. > Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and > ever…. > The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. > Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. > Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. > This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. > Yay! > The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi > time and keep working, for a change. > I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets > and pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. > Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but > jumping on things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The > bigger oens will have to wait. > But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room > with the pay checks… > It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the > yard stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back > pain does not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen > rang, I sparng from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back > twistign something teh wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded > like when it s one of those commercal automatic dialers to get your > number for survey lists:( > A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if > I;d not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on > floors…yet I must get things done somehow. > The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work > given the citrus at work. > But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I > feel weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and > energy drained.  Takes patience….. > Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for > the body to get back on its feet…. > Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the > ast time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it > played this week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut > that very minute for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome > Superman who had given up his powers and was told he could not have > them back, got them back anyway.  Talk about an important mionute in > the story to cut out –or to sleep through:). > All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal > that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he > inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him > powahs again….? > I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute > anyway.  Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who > plays Lois). > I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role > as he is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way > to play but I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had > to be played that way. > Babble babble. > Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday > night, everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, > obviously;-) > La’er.

Im here and watching ren and stimpy —

Response:

Talk about a loneliness support ng. I must doa  good jjob, I am alone in here!!!! Which must mean that the whole bunch a ya do a poor job in making me supported out of lonelienss;-) Had a rough Saturday, feelign completely major bleh. Just now seemign to come out of it. Only five weeks to go before being back to almost normal and being able to put some on food and stuff people need to sort of do a bit more than survive…. In fact, 4 and a half weeks:) Pant pant pant. Gawd, will I ever make ti there! Seems like it;s been forever and ever…. The  will have to relearn how to adapt to life…. Rather than brace myself for survival all teh time. Still gotta go to laundromat tomorrow…. This time, it truely might be the last time I have to…. Yay! The new used machines coming in on Fiday the 28th better workl thsi time and keep working, for a change. I should know soon enough with all I have piled up of duirty blankets and pillows and cushions and curtains and drapes and…etc to wash. Started buyin small xmas pressies ahead of time. Not many, but jumping on things before proce gopes up, for smaller presents. The bigger oens will have to wait. But it will be that much already done and leaving more elbow room with the pay checks… It stopped raining today…If it dries up a bt, maybe I can do the yard stuff tomorrow after the laundromat…if that darn lower back pain does not come back. Dunno why that one deided to bug me. Phoen rang, I sparng from bed too fast to answer, hurt my lower back twistign something teh wrong way. Got to the phone, nothing. Sounded like when it s one of those commercal automatic dialers to get your number for survey lists:( A hot bath hlped gettign the lowerr back to feeling normal again, if I;d not try to work in the cold with that nor even try and work on floors…yet I must get things done somehow. The flu, well, the caugh is never as bad at home as it is at work given the citrus at work. But the had still feels filled with loiquids on the right side, and I feel weak physically, not strong at all, all reserves used up and energy drained. Takes patience….. Maddenign thing to be forced to stare at walls all day, waiting for the body to get back on its feet…. Saw Superman 2 this afternoon. Jad missed a short 1 minute part the ast time that I wanted to see for having missed it each time it played this week. But this time if I managed to stay awake, hey cut that very minute for an ad!!!!! ARRRRGH. So I still dunno owcome Superman who had given up his powers and was told he could not have them back, got them back anyway. Talk about an important mionute in the story to cut out –or to sleep through:). All I saw in one f the times they payed it was that he foudn a cristal that Lois had left on an ice block where she had sat. I figured he inserted it somwewhere I;d ather nt imagine;-):):), and it gave him powahs again….? I ain’t gonan atch it a fourth time just to get that lousy minute anyway. Superman 2 is boring, what’s her face was right (the gal who plays Lois). I coud not help t thin that Reeve was very lucky to get such a role as he is not very outstanding as an actor. Way to "Theatrical" a way to play but I guess that in thsoe days, superheroes from cartoons had to be played that way. Babble babble. Gonna go back to tv since no one else is lonely here on a Staurday night, everyoen being married and paired up or out on a date or two, obviously;-) La’er. —

Response:

Question:

"Donald Hellen" <donhel…@horizonview.net> wrote in message

news:g0omi1hthvanovjtvdr9pka1hng3hhqedf@4ax.com… > This reminds me to ask . . . > I have the 10-amp charger. It is not made for conventional > gel-cell batteries. I have the newer absorbed glass mat type > of batteries (made by Interstate) with the special venting. > (Cost was about $175 for the two.)

Your charger will charge your batteries but will kill them fast! > The facts sheet on the battery stated that it was capable of > a 10-amp charge at 100% discharge, whatever that > qualification means.

That sentence makes no sense. A sealed AGM or Gel battery can never be discharged to 100 percent with full recovery. The deeper you discharge them the faster you kill them. 2000 to 3000 cycles at 15 percent discharge. 1000 at 50 percent. 300 at 80 percent 10 at 90 percent 2 to 5 at 98 percent 100 percent isnt usually possible, but you will KILL THE BATTERY. Plus 10 amps is fine up to say 75 percent charged. After that it MUST be reduced to prevent gassing (14.6v max under charge with a brief 14.8v equalisation overcharge) as it (ten amps)  will kill your battery too… > The people at Interstate said that it would be OK to use the > charger, even though it was not intended to be used on > gel-cells, at least the older type.

Its really not! > After running it for a > mile or so, I plugged in the charger. It started out at 8 > amps for a minute or two, then at 6 amps for a few minutes, > then 4 amps for a while until the charger tapered down to 2 > and then shut off automatically.

And damaged your batteries. > Any comments on using the charger with these newer-type > batteries? > Made of only the finest electrons and the purest > ascii text to bring you the utmost email pleasure.

You need a modern 3 or 4 stage computerised multi stage charger designed for gel / AGM batteries!

Response:

The bar graph tells you of a fault. The number of bars describes the fault. Once the fault is fixed the bar graph displays battery state. What make is your control system? P and Giles, codes: Joystick Battery Gauge Error Codes: Gauge Flashes Every 2.5 Seconds:  Chair’s in sleep mode.  Turn chair off and on again for normal operation. 1 Flashing Light:  The battery needs charging or has a bad connection. Check battery charge level, battery connections, or controller plugs. 2 Flashing Lights:  Left motor has a bad connection.  Check connections. 3 Flashing Lights:  Left motor has a short circuit to the battery.  Contact dealer. 4 Flashing Lights: Flashing Lights:  Right motor has a bad connection. Check connections. 5 Flashing Lights:  Right motor has a short circuit to the battery.  Contact dealer. 6 Flashing Lights:  Battery charger in operation. Disconnect the charger for normal operation. 7 Flashing Lights:  Joystick fault.  Make sure joystick was not in use when chair was turned on.  If fault remains, contact dealer. 8 Flashing Lights:  Controller fault.  Check connections.   If fault remains, contact dealer. "Donald Hellen" <donhel…@horizonview.net> wrote in message

news:55imi1hp8btua1rij6b8gbij415qbh8e3h@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I recently bought a used Everest & Jennings power > wheelchair. It is the Magnum model, but I swapped out the > joystick for one that looks like it came from the MX or > another newer model. The joystick has the bar-graph voltage > readout. Right now the bar graph reads only on the lowest > setting. It will flash when the batteries are nearly dead, > as they did before I put new absorbent-glass mat gel type > batteries. > The chair runs fine. I took it for a mile or so test drive > and it went rather well. > My questions: > 1.) Does anyone have a shop manual or owner’s manual for the > Magnum model? I had the company send me the only owner’s > manual that was close to what I have, and it was for the MX > model. > 2.) Does anyone know of any likely fix for the gar graph > readout (like what often goes bad in them, how to fix it, > etc.)? > 3.) Does anyone have a schematic for the Magnum or MX models > that they could send me a copy of or scan and email to me? > 4.) If I can’t find a schematic for the control box, is > there a cheap aftermarket bar graph I can add myself to the > control box (joystick box)? > 5.) By the way, how much do these things (like the one I > refurbished) cost new? I have about $300 in it with the new > batteries. > I am fairly competent technically, have some electronics > knowledge from my hobby as an amateur radio operator, and > can fix most mechanical things, as I have with this > wheelchair. > This wheelchair is for days when my wife’s migraines are > pounding badly but she still wants to tag along when I leave > to go somewhere, or when her back or hips are out of > adjustment. It will be suitable for the purpose even though > it’s not all that pretty to look at and about 15 years old, > if I got that correct. > Any advice, suggestions, etc. would be appreciated. If you > copy your reply to my email address, I would appreciate it > (depending on how this message goes out, you may have to > replace the "at" and "dot" with "@" and "." and remove the > spaces in my reply to address. > Thanks!!! > Donald Hellen > Made of only the finest electrons and the purest > ascii text to bring you the utmost email pleasure.

Response:

"Donald Hellen" <donhel…@horizonview.net> wrote in message

news:tnmmi1hiv97uci07g8gsfsb9eh0jthah45@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 16 Sep 2005 23:31:53 GMT, "Burgerman" > <burger…@ntlworld.com> wrote: >>The bar graph tells you of a fault. >>The number of bars describes the fault. >>Once the fault is fixed the bar graph displays battery state. >>What make is your control system? >>P and Giles, codes: >>Joystick Battery Gauge Error Codes: >>>>>>snip<<<<< > There are no flashing lights, just a steady single red LED

I dont know this type of controller? > segment on the far left. I do have fault codes in the MX > operator’s manual (I don’t know if they’re exactly the same > as the ones you listed, but I think so). According to the MX > manual (which I believe covers the joystick control but does > not exactly match the main part of the chair),

The chairs not important. Only the control system. this should > mean a low state of charge, but not quite ready to quit, > which should be a flashing red LED segment.

Measure your free standing battery voltage. After being off charge for 24 hours, and running lights or driving the chair for 5 mins, and waiting an hour or so, they should read 12.7v plus. > That happened where I bought it. I charged it up with the > old, sulphated batteries and it lit up the first segment. > Riding in it for about 100 feet made that segment start > flashing. Charging it made it go back to a steady light > until it was used again. The batteries in the unit where I > bought it (a thrift store) were shot, but proved barely good > enough to tell me if the motors and control circuitry > worked.

OK… > Without having a schematic and troubleshooting manual, I > can’t check voltages at the pins of the ICs

you dont need to! > and know if the > problem is the driver IC for the display or one of the > others that measure the voltage or monitor faults. Since I > don’t get a full-scale reading on the display with a freshly > charged battery at 25+ volts, I wonder if it will flash the > codes when there is a problem. Ideally, I’d like to fix it > so that we know where it is on the voltage curve at any > time.

??? I dont know this controller, but a freshly charged battery should be 25.5 to 28v > But since you reminded me about the fault codes, if I add > any battery-monitoring circuit that I build or modify > myself, I will leave the original display and circuitry > intact so that it can alert me to the source of problems (if > that part of it does indeed work). > The name on the joystick box is Everest & Jennings. On the > underside it says "Made in England" and made for the above > company. The box under the seat just says Parkbrake.

Because the controller is in the box where the joystick is, and the parking brake controller is under the seat? I don’t > know if that’s a brand name or a descriptive term. If it’s a > brand, maybe it will be of some help here.

It is a simple box that allows the chair to be pushed when power is off. > So far I have been able to adjust the belt tension so that > it can freewheel in the one setting and move well in the > other setting of the gray lever, and I adjusted the hand > brake on the same side so that it can lock the wheel. > I noticed that the new batteries have the "universal" posts > that are partly round and have flat sides with a hole for > mounting the type of battery cables that you see on > motorcycles and small electric start lawn mowers and > generators. I don’t like them because the regular > car-battery round type clamps don’t grip very well, but well > enough to make it work for now.

Batteries can make many hundreds of amps, as when starting a car. Wheelchairs take a max of 70 to 100 amps, so big terminals are not needed. Even a badly fitting clamp with so much area will be fine. > Do I need to change the clamp type from a lead clamp to the > other type?

No, look at the size of the wires, compared to a starter cable in a car. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Lots of questions, I’m afraid, but it does work for now and > works quite well. > Made of only the finest electrons and the purest > ascii text to bring you the utmost email pleasure.

Response:

Question:

Will be leaving the heat and humidity of Central Florida for the heat and maybe less humidity of Boston (Woburn really) to spend a week with my mom who is in a nursing home.  Mom has Parkinson’s Disease and loses a bit more of her abilities each day. When I was with her last year, she was in an Assisted Living Facility, I could take her out in the car for rides and lunch.  She can not get in and out of the car any longer.  I will take pictures and cat stories and other entertaining things.  We will have fun. Friday, September 2, 2005 will be the one year anniversary of my knee cap break.  Since then I have been through airline security and neither the screws or the metal wires  set off the machines.  How embarrassing that would be! DH,  David, is back on the Hurricane Disaster Relief Force.  It will be a while before FEMA, the local government, and his company deem everything is safe enough for the trucks and drivers to bring the loads of materials to start building temp and permanent structures to work out of.  He will be working a lot. So who will take care of the cats?  Larry our room mate.  He loves these cats as we do.  He is so good with them.  Two of the cats get meds and he takes care of that so neatly. I’m so sorry for all those that are hurting due to the catastrophe on the Gulf and Inland.  My heart goes out to our RPCA members who are still hoping to hear from family.  Many prayers and purrs for good news. See you next week-end Sept 10/11 Charleen

Response:

Will be leaving the heat and humidity of Central Florida for the heat and maybe less humidity of Boston (Woburn really) to spend a week with my mom who is in a nursing home.  Mom has Parkinson’s Disease and loses a bit more of her abilities each day. When I was with her last year, she was in an Assisted Living Facility, I could take her out in the car for rides and lunch.  She can not get in and out of the car any longer.  I will take pictures and cat stories and other entertaining things.  We will have fun.

Travel safe.   And something to consider.  Maybe there is a nurse or orderly who would be able and willing to go with you and help transfer Mom to and from the car so you could at least get her out for a ride and maybe some ice cream?  For pay of course. Jo

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be leaving the heat and humidity of Central Florida for the heat and maybe less humidity of Boston (Woburn really) to spend a week with my mom who is in a nursing home.  Mom has Parkinson’s Disease and loses a bit more of her abilities each day. When I was with her last year, she was in an Assisted Living Facility, I could take her out in the car for rides and lunch.  She can not get in and out of the car any longer.  I will take pictures and cat stories and other entertaining things.  We will have fun. Travel safe.   And something to consider.  Maybe there is a nurse or orderly who would be able and willing to go with you and help transfer Mom to and from the car so you could at least get her out for a ride and maybe some ice cream?  For pay of course. Jo Jo, what a great and loving idea.   Unfortunately it can’t be done.  Mom

is very unstable and must walk with a walker and an aide who holds on to her with a band around my mother’s torso.  Anytime mom has to go to a doctor’s appointment or such it is required that she go in a wheelchair and in a wheelchair van.  Wish we could do as you suggested! Of course there is nothing to say that I can not import some Rum Raisin ice cream, her favorite.  She is not on any dietary restrictions. Charleen

Response:

Of course there is nothing to say that I can not import some Rum Raisin ice cream, her favorite.  She is not on any dietary restrictions. Charleen

Now that sounds good.  Mostly its a matter of trying to see through what someone cannot do or enjoy and still finding the things they can. I’m sure she will enjoy your company even more than you realize too. Jo

Response:

I hope you and your mom enjoy your visit, Charleen.  Will be thinking of you. Christine

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be leaving the heat and humidity of Central Florida for the heat and maybe less humidity of Boston (Woburn really) to spend a week with my mom who is in a nursing home.  Mom has Parkinson’s Disease and loses a bit more of her abilities each day. When I was with her last year, she was in an Assisted Living Facility, I could take her out in the car for rides and lunch.  She can not get in and out of the car any longer.  I will take pictures and cat stories and other entertaining things.  We will have fun. Friday, September 2, 2005 will be the one year anniversary of my knee cap break.  Since then I have been through airline security and neither the screws or the metal wires  set off the machines.  How embarrassing that would be! DH,  David, is back on the Hurricane Disaster Relief Force.  It will be a while before FEMA, the local government, and his company deem everything is safe enough for the trucks and drivers to bring the loads of materials to start building temp and permanent structures to work out of.  He will be working a lot. So who will take care of the cats?  Larry our room mate.  He loves these cats as we do.  He is so good with them.  Two of the cats get meds and he takes care of that so neatly. I’m so sorry for all those that are hurting due to the catastrophe on the Gulf and Inland.  My heart goes out to our RPCA members who are still hoping to hear from family.  Many prayers and purrs for good news. See you next week-end Sept 10/11 Charleen

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be leaving the heat and humidity of Central Florida for the heat and maybe less humidity of Boston (Woburn really) to spend a week with my mom who is in a nursing home.  Mom has Parkinson’s Disease and loses a bit more of her abilities each day. When I was with her last year, she was in an Assisted Living Facility, I could take her out in the car for rides and lunch.  She can not get in and out of the car any longer.  I will take pictures and cat stories and other entertaining things.  We will have fun. Friday, September 2, 2005 will be the one year anniversary of my knee cap break.  Since then I have been through airline security and neither the screws or the metal wires  set off the machines.  How embarrassing that would be! DH,  David, is back on the Hurricane Disaster Relief Force.  It will be a while before FEMA, the local government, and his company deem everything is safe enough for the trucks and drivers to bring the loads of materials to start building temp and permanent structures to work out of.  He will be working a lot. So who will take care of the cats?  Larry our room mate.  He loves these cats as we do.  He is so good with them.  Two of the cats get meds and he takes care of that so neatly. I’m so sorry for all those that are hurting due to the catastrophe on the Gulf and Inland.  My heart goes out to our RPCA members who are still hoping to hear from family.  Many prayers and purrs for good news. See you next week-end Sept 10/11 Charleen

Have a wonderful and safe trip, Charleen. Ginger-lyn Home Pages:   http://www.spiritrealm.com/summer/   http://www.angelfire.com/folk/glsummer (homepage & cats)   http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~summer/index.htm (genealogy)   http://www.movieanimals.bravehost.com/ (The Violence Against                                              Animals in Movies Website)

Response:

Lots of health purrs for your mom and for you to travel safely, Charleen, — Polonca & Soncek

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Will be leaving the heat and humidity of Central Florida for the heat and maybe less humidity of Boston (Woburn really) to spend a week with my mom who is in a nursing home.  Mom has Parkinson’s Disease and loses a bit more of her abilities each day. When I was with her last year, she was in an Assisted Living Facility, I could take her out in the car for rides and lunch.  She can not get in and out of the car any longer.  I will take pictures and cat stories and other entertaining things.  We will have fun. Friday, September 2, 2005 will be the one year anniversary of my knee cap break.  Since then I have been through airline security and neither the screws or the metal wires  set off the machines.  How embarrassing that would be! DH,  David, is back on the Hurricane Disaster Relief Force.  It will be a while before FEMA, the local government, and his company deem everything is safe enough for the trucks and drivers to bring the loads of materials to start building temp and permanent structures to work out of.  He will be working a lot. So who will take care of the cats?  Larry our room mate.  He loves these cats as we do.  He is so good with them.  Two of the cats get meds and he takes care of that so neatly. I’m so sorry for all those that are hurting due to the catastrophe on the Gulf and Inland.  My heart goes out to our RPCA members who are still hoping to hear from family.  Many prayers and purrs for good news. See you next week-end Sept 10/11 Charleen

Response:

Question:

"MikesBrain" <M…@N.UK> wrote in message

news:I6oQe.55768$Il.1934@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 2005-08-28, Responding to Burgerman… >>> [...] >>>> I can sell you a hardly used recaro, that I removed >>>> because it was uncomfortable compared to my gel / air >>>> cushion??? >>> If nobody else is interested, and its within our >>> "budget", we may be interested in it. Is it >>> "shower-proof" BTW? >> Dunno!  I never wet it.  But I doubt it is. They are just >> good car seats at the end of the day. Make me an offer? >> Can post! > Let me get back to you. Need to see If Elaine is interested. > BTW… Do you still have your old footplate hangers? The > one’s you junked when you fitted your footplate? > I think Elaine might be interested in them too as she no > longer needs the huge ram-fitted lifting footrests her F55s > came with. Her chair is red like your 1st one, so…? > — > —- > * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 > * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c > – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Still have them but used some of the screws, plastic washers, and stuff, including the bits that they use to lock on the chair!

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -maxinemovies wrote: > On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:36:36 +1000, Pete <pete@home> wrote: >>See if you can organize a test trial on all of them, then pick the one >>that best suits you. > "if you can afford it…" > And there’s the biggest problem. I’m on SSI and MediCal. And MediCal > paid for the Jazzy two years ago so it’ll be a lot of years before > they’ll authorize another chair for me, no matter the reason. > I tested a four wheel scooter today, the Merit, and except for it > being a huge thing with a big turning radius, I felt pretty comfy in > it, and safe. I could see it being a problem, because of its size, in > smaller restaurants and at a poker table in a casino, but otherwise, > what else? I do some outdoor stuff like go to rodeos and outdoor > concerts. I think the scooter will be fine for those. Maybe I should > keep all three chairs and use whichever one is appropriate for the > occasion? > I’d love to hear concrete reasons why a scooter is a bad idea.

There are none, if it works for you, then it’s the right choice.

Response:

Hey Maxi: You might want to look into a seating assessment to determine what set up on say the Jazzy would be more comfortable–Medical just might cover that too.  I ended up switching to a more contoured back and a seat cushion that is several densities of memory foam.  Best set up I’ve had…Better than gel, roho, foam etc.  Much more breathable than vinyl as well so better for skin preservation. BTW where I am at least, it is usually possible to get a demo for several days of evaluation because taking for a spin around the store sometimes just won’t do it. Just another 2 cents from a para. Let’s hear what you finally come up with as a solution and good luck with your choice. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -maxinemovies wrote: > The set up: > I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old > Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s > comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. > For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, > vinyl covered seat. > The problem: > I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over > that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other > chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. > Possible solution? > Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in > front of me to hold onto for balance. > What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? > I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or > two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice > greatly appreciated. > Maxi > Email addy upon request.

Response:

2005-08-26, Responding to John… > We went on a chair search and ALL of the new chaires we were able to > examing hands on had seats that were damn uncomfortable.  All of them > had somevariation of the same "All foam on a board: construction". > Once the you and the foan have adapted to you sitting there the result > is very much what you have described. I have yet to see and seeting > system that is as comfortable as the seating in  most cars. > I am taking the seat from the old Storm Ranger to a Automotive > upholstry shop to be rebuilt.  If They are successfull I will do the > same to our new TDX4 also from Invacare.

Or you could just spend the money on an aftermarket specialist seating cushion maybe? These days there are several options open for effective seating, and so wheelchair suppliers don’t include such delights with the "product", only chucking in a grotty imitation so as to keep the showroom price down. Have you looked at the gel-based cushions, or the pneumatic multiple interlinked mini-cushion type products? All you need for these is a flatish base to put them on, which many of today’s chairs have. Just a thought… — —- * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:36:36 +1000, Pete <pete@home> wrote: >maxinemovies wrote: >> The set up: >> I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old >> Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s >> comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. >> For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, >> vinyl covered seat. >> The problem: >> I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over >> that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other >> chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. >> Possible solution? >MikesBrain said everything i was thinking, get a new cushion, tilt the >seat back more till you feel comfortable, I’ve never liked the Jazzys, >they always felt like driving a forklift, they’re really just a front >wheel drive chair with anti tip casters. >> Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in >> front of me to hold onto for balance. >> What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? >I think a scooter would be a bad move, though try one and see if you >like it, one thing to consider is that MD is progressive (i know I’ve >got it as well) so what you can handle today, may not be the case in a >few years, if you can afford it get a good all round chair with plenty >of power, Quantum Blast 850, Invacare TDX5 or one of their RWD chairs, >Quickie P-222 SE or S-646 SE, get power tilt, that way you have >something that will get you most places and will suit you for quite a >few years. >See if you can organize a test trial on all of them, then pick the one >that best suits you.

"if you can afford it…" And there’s the biggest problem. I’m on SSI and MediCal. And MediCal paid for the Jazzy two years ago so it’ll be a lot of years before they’ll authorize another chair for me, no matter the reason. I tested a four wheel scooter today, the Merit, and except for it being a huge thing with a big turning radius, I felt pretty comfy in it, and safe. I could see it being a problem, because of its size, in smaller restaurants and at a poker table in a casino, but otherwise, what else? I do some outdoor stuff like go to rodeos and outdoor concerts. I think the scooter will be fine for those. Maybe I should keep all three chairs and use whichever one is appropriate for the occasion? I’d love to hear concrete reasons why a scooter is a bad idea. Thanks. Maxi Email addy upon request.

Response:

I found a document created by AARP at one point in my research that said scooters, especially the three-wheel type, are more prone to tip-over type accidents than power chairs.  I’ll try to find the exact URL.  FWIW, it was a PDF and it wasn’t AT the AARP site, but another site that talked about mobility.  They appeared to have done a fair amount of research on a number of different types of scooters, too.  If you’re at all interested, I can try to dig it up. — Bobby G. "maxinemovies" <email on requ…@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:hctsg1dtconeicm8v735dl9745pntptmtg@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 09:36:36 +1000, Pete <pete@home> wrote: > >maxinemovies wrote: > >> The set up: > >> I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old > >> Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s > >> comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. > >> For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, > >> vinyl covered seat. > >> The problem: > >> I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over > >> that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other > >> chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. > >> Possible solution? > >MikesBrain said everything i was thinking, get a new cushion, tilt the > >seat back more till you feel comfortable, I’ve never liked the Jazzys, > >they always felt like driving a forklift, they’re really just a front > >wheel drive chair with anti tip casters. > >> Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in > >> front of me to hold onto for balance. > >> What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? > >I think a scooter would be a bad move, though try one and see if you > >like it, one thing to consider is that MD is progressive (i know I’ve > >got it as well) so what you can handle today, may not be the case in a > >few years, if you can afford it get a good all round chair with plenty > >of power, Quantum Blast 850, Invacare TDX5 or one of their RWD chairs, > >Quickie P-222 SE or S-646 SE, get power tilt, that way you have > >something that will get you most places and will suit you for quite a > >few years. > >See if you can organize a test trial on all of them, then pick the one > >that best suits you. > "if you can afford it…" > And there’s the biggest problem. I’m on SSI and MediCal. And MediCal > paid for the Jazzy two years ago so it’ll be a lot of years before > they’ll authorize another chair for me, no matter the reason. > I tested a four wheel scooter today, the Merit, and except for it > being a huge thing with a big turning radius, I felt pretty comfy in > it, and safe. I could see it being a problem, because of its size, in > smaller restaurants and at a poker table in a casino, but otherwise, > what else? I do some outdoor stuff like go to rodeos and outdoor > concerts. I think the scooter will be fine for those. Maybe I should > keep all three chairs and use whichever one is appropriate for the > occasion? > I’d love to hear concrete reasons why a scooter is a bad idea. > Thanks. > Maxi > Email addy upon request.

Response:

2005-08-25, Responding to maxinemovies… > The set up: > I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old > Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s > comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. > For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, > vinyl covered seat. > The problem: > I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over > that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other > chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. > Possible solution?

First off, get a proper cushion! Next, find a way to get your seat base tipped back at an angle. So many people suffer compression discomfort and even injury just because they are sitting directly on their bum-bones. Tilting the seat base to an appropriate angle spreads the load across the glutimus maximus and thighs, AND has the added benefit of keeping you in the seat instead of slowly sliding out of it as your torso tries to force your legs out of the way due to gravity. Use gravity to keep you in, rather than leting it force you out. With a scooter, you’ll find a whole list of things you can’t do with a scooter that you can do with a proper powerchair. IMO the money you’re considering spending on a scooter would be better spent on a couple of decent support cushions, and some decent batteries for your chairs. As the mid-wheel (front wheel with a couple of anti-tips at the front) chairs are quite limited in the terrain they can get through/over, I’d also be considering a trade-in for something rear-wheeled and with some "oomph" behind it. See Burgerman’s stuff for inspiration. ;) — —- * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

"John" <john…@comcast.net> wrote in message

news:osrug1pcgi4ik88nvhorcnl0sqme5rpg5e@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:20:48 -0700, maxinemovies <email on > requ…@hotmail.com> wrote: >>The set up: >>I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old >>Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s >>comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. >>For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, >>vinyl covered seat. >>The problem: >>I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over >>that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other >>chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. >>Possible solution? >>Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in >>front of me to hold onto for balance. >>What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? >>I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or >>two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice >>greatly appreciated. >>Maxi >>Email addy upon request. > Most wheelchairs with "captians chair" or "Van Seat" built  5 or more > years ago were built with seats constructed with a wire frame and > springs. Some  padding was added to soften the cushion.  Most auto > seats are constructed in this manner.  My wifes first chair was a > Invacare Storm Ranger II.  We were informed a year ago that the > wheelchair was too old to repair. O,r in other words, they wanted to > sell a new chair because Medicare approved the sale. > About 5 years ago rthe manufacturer of the Invacare Van seats went out > of business. Thus, Invacare Went looking for a new source of "Van" > Seating. > We went on a chair search and ALL of the new chaires we were able to > examing hands on had seats that were damn uncomfortable.  All of them > had somevariation of the same "All foam on a board: construction". > Once the you and the foan have adapted to you sitting there the result > is very much what you have described. I have yet to see and seeting > system that is as comfortable as the seating in  most cars.

Why not just take the hardly used passenger seast from a crashed or broken car? > I am taking the seat from the old Storm Ranger to a Automotive > upholstry shop to be rebuilt.  If They are successfull I will do the > same to our new TDX4 also from Invacare. > I am also thinking of buying a used car seat to adapt to the TDX4. It > can’t be as bad as the concrete vinyl covered seat we now have on the > TDX4!

Ahhh…. !!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> John > If you have noticed misspellings, please don’t.bother to inform me of > them, as I am painfull aware of my lack of spelling skills and it is > painfull to be reminded of my limitations.

Response:

"MikesBrain" <M…@N.UK> wrote in message

news:MwWPe.33296$jr4.29727@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 2005-08-26, Responding to John… > [...] >>>Or you could just spend the money on an aftermarket >>>specialist seating cushion maybe? > [...] >> All the special cushions (air,gell,zone)available seem to be yet >> another way to make powerchair users more uncomfortable.  In a power >> chair seat  you need a combination of softness(distrubited support) >> and latteral and forward and aft stability.  The beauty of the older >> design seating with wire and spring construction is in the ability of >> the seat to absord vibrations from the casters and drive wheel while >> providing lateral and fore and aft stability without pressure points. >> Just for grins do you know of any powerchair users that don’t find >> that car seating is generally much more comfortable then powerchair >> seating in the newer model chairs. > This is because the vehicle itself behaves differently due > to it’s weight, and the detail that the passenger/driver > will be sitting in the position I mentioned, with gravity > holding them in the seat, not pushing their torso down and > forcing a slide-out. > A powerchair creates a different set of stresses and > therefore requirements. This is why there are specialist > cushions for wheelchairs and not so much for cars. > The problem you appear to be having seems to me to be based > on the wrong set of cushion/requirement factors. > However, if you find that what is effectively a car seat > works for you, then indeed explore how to make this as > effective as possible, but do be aware that car seating has > it’s limitations too, and a wheelchair will be the platform > to find them. ; > Best of luck in your mission. :)

I can sell you a hardly used recaro, that I removed because it was uncomfortable compared to my gel / air cushion???

Response:

I use 4, 2 manual-2 power…No clear answer…But you have really known this answer…One power chair I have gets messy, the other I keep clean, one manual is for woods…The other for around the house…. "maxinemovies" <email on requ…@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4vrqg1h8f9v08eqgcb3fh97akb29h2m939@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The set up: > I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old > Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s > comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. > For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, > vinyl covered seat. > The problem: > I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over > that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other > chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. > Possible solution? > Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in > front of me to hold onto for balance. > What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? > I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or > two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice > greatly appreciated. > Maxi > Email addy upon request.

Response:

2005-08-28, Responding to Burgermans other computer… [...] >> BTW… Do you still have your old footplate hangers? The >> one’s you junked when you fitted your footplate? >> I think Elaine might be interested in them too as she no >> longer needs the huge ram-fitted lifting footrests her F55s >> came with. Her chair is red like your 1st one, so…? > Still have them but used some of the screws, plastic > washers, and stuff, including the bits that they use to > lock on the chair!

Can Elaine "aquire" them? We could save some weight replacing those ram-driven lifters. Email me re: details? The addy is on the front page of MikesBrain (http://tirnyurl.com/4872c) Or should I just give you a bell? — —- * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:38:45 -0400, "Robert Green" <ROBERT_GREEN1…@YAH00.COM> wrote: >I found a document created by AARP at one point in my research that said >scooters, especially the three-wheel type, are more prone to tip-over type >accidents than power chairs.  I’ll try to find the exact URL.  FWIW, it was >a PDF and it wasn’t AT the AARP site, but another site that talked about >mobility.  They appeared to have done a fair amount of research on a number >of different types of scooters, too.  If you’re at all interested, I can try >to dig it up.

Thanks. I’d appreciate. FWIW, I’m looking at four wheel scooters. Maxi Email addy upon request.

Response:

I will dig them out and post them to you if you mail me an adress? You will need some bits though. Trouble is that the bits are about the same price as the new footrest hangers.  I think I might have purple or red! Before you get too exited I need to make sure they are not binned… "MikesBrain" <M…@N.UK> wrote in message

news:DlNQe.61502$Il.7607@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 2005-08-28, Responding to Burgermans other computer… > [...] >>> BTW… Do you still have your old footplate hangers? The >>> one’s you junked when you fitted your footplate? >>> I think Elaine might be interested in them too as she no >>> longer needs the huge ram-fitted lifting footrests her F55s >>> came with. Her chair is red like your 1st one, so…? >> Still have them but used some of the screws, plastic >> washers, and stuff, including the bits that they use to >> lock on the chair! > Can Elaine "aquire" them? We could save some weight > replacing those ram-driven lifters. > Email me re: details? The addy is on the front page of > MikesBrain (http://tirnyurl.com/4872c) > Or should I just give you a bell? > — > —- > * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 > * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c > – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

"maxinemovies" <email on requ…@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:psitg1hec76bj6rusn20qeemcjstp7mdob@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 01:38:45 -0400, "Robert Green" > <ROBERT_GREEN1…@YAH00.COM> wrote: > >I found a document created by AARP at one point in my research that said > >scooters, especially the three-wheel type, are more prone to tip-over type > >accidents than power chairs.  I’ll try to find the exact URL.  FWIW, it was > >a PDF and it wasn’t AT the AARP site, but another site that talked about > >mobility.  They appeared to have done a fair amount of research on a number > >of different types of scooters, too.  If you’re at all interested, I can try > >to dig it up. > Thanks. I’d appreciate. FWIW, I’m looking at four wheel scooters.

Well, thank God for history files!  IIRC, they pointed out that 4 wheel types are much hard to tip over accidentally than the three wheel types. http://www.pridemobility.com/pdf/resourcecenter/articles/scooter/aarp… — Bobby G.

Response:

2005-08-26, Responding to John… [...] >>Or you could just spend the money on an aftermarket >>specialist seating cushion maybe?

[...] > All the special cushions (air,gell,zone)available seem to be yet > another way to make powerchair users more uncomfortable.  In a power > chair seat  you need a combination of softness(distrubited support) > and latteral and forward and aft stability.  The beauty of the older > design seating with wire and spring construction is in the ability of > the seat to absord vibrations from the casters and drive wheel while > providing lateral and fore and aft stability without pressure points. > Just for grins do you know of any powerchair users that don’t find > that car seating is generally much more comfortable then powerchair > seating in the newer model chairs.

This is because the vehicle itself behaves differently due to it’s weight, and the detail that the passenger/driver will be sitting in the position I mentioned, with gravity holding them in the seat, not pushing their torso down and forcing a slide-out. A powerchair creates a different set of stresses and therefore requirements. This is why there are specialist cushions for wheelchairs and not so much for cars. The problem you appear to be having seems to me to be based on the wrong set of cushion/requirement factors. However, if you find that what is effectively a car seat works for you, then indeed explore how to make this as effective as possible, but do be aware that car seating has it’s limitations too, and a wheelchair will be the platform to find them. ; Best of luck in your mission. :) — —- * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

2005-08-27, Responding to Burgerman… [...] > I can sell you a hardly used recaro, that I removed because it was > uncomfortable compared to my gel / air cushion???

If nobody else is interested, and its within our "budget", we may be interested in it. Is it "shower-proof" BTW? — —- * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

The set up: I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, vinyl covered seat. The problem: I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. Possible solution? Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in front of me to hold onto for balance. What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice greatly appreciated. Maxi Email addy upon request.

Response:

On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:20:48 -0700, maxinemovies <email on – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -requ…@hotmail.com> wrote: >The set up: >I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old >Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s >comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. >For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, >vinyl covered seat. >The problem: >I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over >that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other >chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. >Possible solution? >Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in >front of me to hold onto for balance. >What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? >I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or >two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice >greatly appreciated. >Maxi >Email addy upon request.

Most wheelchairs with "captians chair" or "Van Seat" built  5 or more years ago were built with seats constructed with a wire frame and springs. Some  padding was added to soften the cushion.  Most auto seats are constructed in this manner.  My wifes first chair was a Invacare Storm Ranger II.  We were informed a year ago that the wheelchair was too old to repair. O,r in other words, they wanted to sell a new chair because Medicare approved the sale. About 5 years ago rthe manufacturer of the Invacare Van seats went out of business. Thus, Invacare Went looking for a new source of "Van" Seating. We went on a chair search and ALL of the new chaires we were able to examing hands on had seats that were damn uncomfortable.  All of them had somevariation of the same "All foam on a board: construction". Once the you and the foan have adapted to you sitting there the result is very much what you have described. I have yet to see and seeting system that is as comfortable as the seating in  most cars. I am taking the seat from the old Storm Ranger to a Automotive upholstry shop to be rebuilt.  If They are successfull I will do the same to our new TDX4 also from Invacare. I am also thinking of buying a used car seat to adapt to the TDX4. It can’t be as bad as the concrete vinyl covered seat we now have on the TDX4! John If you have noticed misspellings, please don’t.bother to inform me of them, as I am painfull aware of my lack of spelling skills and it is painfull to be reminded of my limitations.

Response:

On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 07:28:34 GMT, "Patrickg" <pb…@columbus.rr.com> wrote: >What your saying sounds right for you. For me I had the choice of a >traditional riding mower, or a Zero turning style….I realize I’m talking >about different horses, but the same need for something to hold on >to…Being a paraplegic. Pride makes a hefty 4 wheel. >"maxinemovies" <email on requ…@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:4vrqg1h8f9v08eqgcb3fh97akb29h2m939@4ax.com…

What are you using now? I tested the Merit and felt "surrounded" and somewhat safe. We raised the arms and then pulled the tiller back until I didn’t have to lean at all. I tried going down a ramp and I liked having something in front of me to hold onto. In my chair, my husband has to get behind me and hold my shoulders so I don’t pitch forward going downhill. In the scooter, I didn’t need that. I still haven’t decided and I appreciate everyone’s input. Maxi Email addy upon request.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -maxinemovies wrote: > The set up: > I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old > Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s > comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. > For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, > vinyl covered seat. > The problem: > I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over > that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other > chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. > Possible solution?

MikesBrain said everything i was thinking, get a new cushion, tilt the seat back more till you feel comfortable, I’ve never liked the Jazzys, they always felt like driving a forklift, they’re really just a front wheel drive chair with anti tip casters. > Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in > front of me to hold onto for balance. > What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer?

I think a scooter would be a bad move, though try one and see if you like it, one thing to consider is that MD is progressive (i know I’ve got it as well) so what you can handle today, may not be the case in a few years, if you can afford it get a good all round chair with plenty of power, Quantum Blast 850, Invacare TDX5 or one of their RWD chairs, Quickie P-222 SE or S-646 SE, get power tilt, that way you have something that will get you most places and will suit you for quite a few years. See if you can organize a test trial on all of them, then pick the one that best suits you.

Response:

2005-08-28, Responding to Burgerman… >> [...] >>> I can sell you a hardly used recaro, that I removed >>> because it was uncomfortable compared to my gel / air >>> cushion??? >> If nobody else is interested, and its within our >> "budget", we may be interested in it. Is it >> "shower-proof" BTW? > Dunno!  I never wet it.  But I doubt it is. They are just > good car seats at the end of the day. Make me an offer? > Can post!

Let me get back to you. Need to see If Elaine is interested. BTW… Do you still have your old footplate hangers? The one’s you junked when you fitted your footplate? I think Elaine might be interested in them too as she no longer needs the huge ram-fitted lifting footrests her F55s came with. Her chair is red like your 1st one, so…? — —- * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 21:41:54 GMT, MikesBrain <M…@N.UK> wrote: >2005-08-26, Responding to John… >> We went on a chair search and ALL of the new chaires we were able to >> examing hands on had seats that were damn uncomfortable.  All of them >> had somevariation of the same "All foam on a board: construction". >> Once the you and the foan have adapted to you sitting there the result >> is very much what you have described. I have yet to see and seeting >> system that is as comfortable as the seating in  most cars. >> I am taking the seat from the old Storm Ranger to a Automotive >> upholstry shop to be rebuilt.  If They are successfull I will do the >> same to our new TDX4 also from Invacare. >Or you could just spend the money on an aftermarket >specialist seating cushion maybe? >These days there are several options open for effective >seating, and so wheelchair suppliers don’t include such >delights with the "product", only chucking in a grotty >imitation so as to keep the showroom price down. >Have you looked at the gel-based cushions, or the pneumatic >multiple interlinked mini-cushion type products? >All you need for these is a flatish base to put them on, >which many of today’s chairs have. >Just a thought…

Thanks for your suggestion. All the special cushions (air,gell,zone)available seem to be yet another way to make powerchair users more uncomfortable.  In a power chair seat  you need a combination of softness(distrubited support) and latteral and forward and aft stability.  The beauty of the older design seating with wire and spring construction is in the ability of the seat to absord vibrations from the casters and drive wheel while providing lateral and fore and aft stability without pressure points. Just for grins do you know of any powerchair users that don’t find that car seating is generally much more comfortable then powerchair seating in the newer model chairs. John

Response:

What your saying sounds right for you. For me I had the choice of a traditional riding mower, or a Zero turning style….I realize I’m talking about different horses, but the same need for something to hold on to…Being a paraplegic. Pride makes a hefty 4 wheel. "maxinemovies" <email on requ…@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:4vrqg1h8f9v08eqgcb3fh97akb29h2m939@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The set up: > I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old > Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s > comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. > For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, > vinyl covered seat. > The problem: > I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over > that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other > chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. > Possible solution? > Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in > front of me to hold onto for balance. > What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? > I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or > two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice > greatly appreciated. > Maxi > Email addy upon request.

Response:

"MikesBrain" <M…@N.UK> wrote in message

news:GI6Qe.25717$5m3.17744@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk… > 2005-08-27, Responding to Burgerman… > [...] >> I can sell you a hardly used recaro, that I removed because it was >> uncomfortable compared to my gel / air cushion??? > If nobody else is interested, and its within our "budget", > we may be interested in it. Is it "shower-proof" BTW?

Dunno!  I never wet it.  But I doubt it is. bThey are just good car seats at the end of the day. Make me an offer? Can post! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > —- > * Another squeaking wheel @ http://tinyurl.com/6bf56 > * Mike’s (curious) Brain  @ http://tinyurl.com/4872c > – Have a nice day, it really does do you good! :)

Response:

My butt stays on RoHo. "Burgerman" <burger…@ntlworld.com> wrote in message

news:UMYPe.321$n4.189@newsfe2-win.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "John" <john…@comcast.net> wrote in message > news:osrug1pcgi4ik88nvhorcnl0sqme5rpg5e@4ax.com… >> On Thu, 25 Aug 2005 00:20:48 -0700, maxinemovies <email on >> requ…@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>The set up: >>>I have two power chairs. For everyday, around the house, I use an old >>>Quickie with a Damaco (that’s spelled dinosaur) Power Pack. It’s >>>comfortable but old and getting delicate. I only use it in the house. >>>For going out, I use a Jazzy with center wheel drive and a concrete, >>>vinyl covered seat. >>>The problem: >>>I hate the Jazzy. After an hour or two, I’m in so much pain all over >>>that I just want to roll off a cliff. I’ve tried a couple of other >>>chairs and I’m just not happy with them either. >>>Possible solution? >>>Get a scooter. I have MD and I like the idea of having something in >>>front of me to hold onto for balance. >>>What do you all think? Which do you have? Prefer? >>>I’m going today to the local mobility store to test drive a scooter or >>>two, notably the Merit Pioneer 4 and one of the CTM models. Any advice >>>greatly appreciated. >>>Maxi >>>Email addy upon request. >> Most wheelchairs with "captians chair" or "Van Seat" built  5 or more >> years ago were built with seats constructed with a wire frame and >> springs. Some  padding was added to soften the cushion.  Most auto >> seats are constructed in this manner.  My wifes first chair was a >> Invacare Storm Ranger II.  We were informed a year ago that the >> wheelchair was too old to repair. O,r in other words, they wanted to >> sell a new chair because Medicare approved the sale. >> About 5 years ago rthe manufacturer of the Invacare Van seats went out >> of business. Thus, Invacare Went looking for a new source of "Van" >> Seating. >> We went on a chair search and ALL of the new chaires we were able to >> examing hands on had seats that were damn uncomfortable.  All of them >> had somevariation of the same "All foam on a board: construction". >> Once the you and the foan have adapted to you sitting there the result >> is very much what you have described. I have yet to see and seeting >> system that is as comfortable as the seating in  most cars. > Why not just take the hardly used passenger seast from a crashed or broken > car? >> I am taking the seat from the old Storm Ranger to a Automotive >> upholstry shop to be rebuilt.  If They are successfull I will do the >> same to our new TDX4 also from Invacare. >> I am also thinking of buying a used car seat to adapt to the TDX4. It >> can’t be as bad as the concrete vinyl covered seat we now have on the >> TDX4! > Ahhh…. !!! >> John >> If you have noticed misspellings, please don’t.bother to inform me of >> them, as I am painfull aware of my lack of spelling skills and it is >> painfull to be reminded of my limitations.

Response:

Question:

"Cash in the Attic", "Bargain Hunt", "Car Booty",  and/or "Flog It!" I think Paul Martin is probably the best exponent of the bargain hunt, antique roadshow, boot sale bonanza on offer these days. But, if it’s a TV cop with an endearing disability you’re after. You could try "Monk", BBC2 Sat PM. I think he’s supposed to have OCD [haven't we all?] So, no wheelchairs I’m afraid. For more info, go to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ouch/columnists/damon/030205.shtml Choice quote of the webpage: "the really great thing is that the visual effects they use will allow you to see what it must be like for a blind person." — The BBC is not responsible for the content of external websites. So who do we blame now? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ollie Sandcastle wrote: > Ma’am, forgive me for the Imposition, but, which is the 21st century > equivalent of Ironside? > OTS > "100905" <my_invisible_book…@excite.com> wrote in message > news:knpUe.23$Xy2.14@newsfe7-win.ntli.net… >>Like I say… this is because when you’re alone you’re not at the mercy of >>other people’s infectious overspray. This is especially true if you aren’t >>in active snogging mode.  Since being ousted from gainful employment and >>therefore no longer subject to the vagaries of the "air conditioning >>system" I no longer suffer from the following: pounding blood rushing >>pressure in my head, falling asleep under my desk by 11am, a need to wear >>three woolly jumpers and a hat and STILL having to use a charcoal >>handwarmer, colds, flu, ear infections, depression, nervous breakdowns, >>stress, that frown I habitually wore all day until I emerged blinking in >>the moonlight. So, apart from the talking to myself, I’ve never been >>healthier. Also, being gainfully unemployed means I get to watch the 21st >>century equivalent to Ironside without having to drink Lemsip… although >>sometimes I’m tempted. >>Ollie Sandcastle wrote: >>>This information is rather uncanny, as I have oft remarked to myself > that I >>>have not had so much of a sniffle since…I cannot even assign a > definite >>>duration since the previous occasion of me having to imbibe Lemsip, > watch >>>"Ironside" und so weiter. >>>OTS >>>"240805" <240…@aslnospam.com> wrote in message >>>news:BF320492.1B3F%240805@aslnospam.com… >>>>I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a >>>half. >>>>Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in >>>the >>>>attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And >>>>that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in >>>league >>>>with my enemies…….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Eleonore Beaudoin wrote: > 240805 (240…@aslnospam.com) writes: >>Eleonore Beaudoin on 24/08/2005 11:13 am wrote: >>>240805 (240…@aslnospam.com) writes: >>>>I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a half. >>>>Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in the >>>>attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And >>>>that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in league >>>>with my enemies……. >>>Sounds like they are aseptecized though, since they gave you no germs nor >>>virus in a year. I’d not worry abotu them then;-) >>>– >>They steal things from me if I ever leave the house. And I’m sure they talk >>about me behind my back [in cunning whispers]. But I’m on to them – I don’t >>ever go out now and I’ve drawn chalk circles around all my possessions. >>White for non-perishable and yellow for perishable, that makes sense doesn’t >>it? Doesn’t it? > They pretended not to hear you…?

I said they were cunning. I try to be real quiet as I move about the house, you know, keep my breath real shallow, and listen real hard at doors before I go in, just in case.

Response:

This information is rather uncanny, as I have oft remarked to myself that I have not had so much of a sniffle since…I cannot even assign a definite duration since the previous occasion of me having to imbibe Lemsip, watch "Ironside" und so weiter. OTS "240805" <240…@aslnospam.com> wrote in message

news:BF320492.1B3F%240805@aslnospam.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a half. > Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in the > attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And > that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in league > with my enemies…….

Response:

Like I say… this is because when you’re alone you’re not at the mercy of other people’s infectious overspray. This is especially true if you aren’t in active snogging mode.  Since being ousted from gainful employment and therefore no longer subject to the vagaries of the "air conditioning system" I no longer suffer from the following: pounding blood rushing pressure in my head, falling asleep under my desk by 11am, a need to wear three woolly jumpers and a hat and STILL having to use a charcoal handwarmer, colds, flu, ear infections, depression, nervous breakdowns, stress, that frown I habitually wore all day until I emerged blinking in the moonlight. So, apart from the talking to myself, I’ve never been healthier. Also, being gainfully unemployed means I get to watch the 21st century equivalent to Ironside without having to drink Lemsip… although sometimes I’m tempted. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Ollie Sandcastle wrote: > This information is rather uncanny, as I have oft remarked to myself that I > have not had so much of a sniffle since…I cannot even assign a definite > duration since the previous occasion of me having to imbibe Lemsip, watch > "Ironside" und so weiter. > OTS > "240805" <240…@aslnospam.com> wrote in message > news:BF320492.1B3F%240805@aslnospam.com… >>I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a > half. >>Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in > the >>attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And >>that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in > league >>with my enemies…….

Response:

Ma’am, forgive me for the Imposition, but, which is the 21st century equivalent of Ironside? OTS "100905" <my_invisible_book…@excite.com> wrote in message

news:knpUe.23$Xy2.14@newsfe7-win.ntli.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Like I say… this is because when you’re alone you’re not at the mercy of > other people’s infectious overspray. This is especially true if you aren’t > in active snogging mode.  Since being ousted from gainful employment and > therefore no longer subject to the vagaries of the "air conditioning > system" I no longer suffer from the following: pounding blood rushing > pressure in my head, falling asleep under my desk by 11am, a need to wear > three woolly jumpers and a hat and STILL having to use a charcoal > handwarmer, colds, flu, ear infections, depression, nervous breakdowns, > stress, that frown I habitually wore all day until I emerged blinking in > the moonlight. So, apart from the talking to myself, I’ve never been > healthier. Also, being gainfully unemployed means I get to watch the 21st > century equivalent to Ironside without having to drink Lemsip… although > sometimes I’m tempted. > Ollie Sandcastle wrote: > > This information is rather uncanny, as I have oft remarked to myself that I > > have not had so much of a sniffle since…I cannot even assign a definite > > duration since the previous occasion of me having to imbibe Lemsip, watch > > "Ironside" und so weiter. > > OTS > > "240805" <240…@aslnospam.com> wrote in message > > news:BF320492.1B3F%240805@aslnospam.com… > >>I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a > > half. > >>Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in > > the > >>attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And > >>that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in > > league > >>with my enemies…….

Response:

I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a half. Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in the attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in league with my enemies…….

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -240805 (240…@aslnospam.com) writes: > I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a half. > Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in the > attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And > that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in league > with my enemies…….

Sounds like they are aseptecized though, since they gave you no germs nor virus in a year. I’d not worry abotu them then;-) —

Response:

Eleonore Beaudoin on 24/08/2005 11:13 am wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> 240805 (240…@aslnospam.com) writes: >> I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a half. >> Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in the >> attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And >> that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in league >> with my enemies……. > Sounds like they are aseptecized though, since they gave you no germs nor > virus in a year. I’d not worry abotu them then;-) > —

They steal things from me if I ever leave the house. And I’m sure they talk about me behind my back [in cunning whispers]. But I’m on to them – I don’t ever go out now and I’ve drawn chalk circles around all my possessions. White for non-perishable and yellow for perishable, that makes sense doesn’t it? Doesn’t it?

Response:

Yah, big sense ;-) "They steal things from me if I ever leave the house. And I’m sure they talk about me behind my back [in cunning whispers]. But I’m on to them – I don’t ever go out now and I’ve drawn chalk circles around all my possessions. White for non-perishable and yellow for perishable, that makes sense doesn’t it? Doesn’t it?"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -240805 (240…@aslnospam.com) writes: > Eleonore Beaudoin on 24/08/2005 11:13 am wrote: >> 240805 (240…@aslnospam.com) writes: >>> I haven’t had any kind of a cold or infectious disease in a year and a half. >>> Okay. I’m talking to myself more than usual and the beings that live in the >>> attic are keeping me up with their incessant tapping all night long. And >>> that postman looked at me a little weird yesterday… perhaps he’s in league >>> with my enemies……. >> Sounds like they are aseptecized though, since they gave you no germs nor >> virus in a year. I’d not worry abotu them then;-) >> — > They steal things from me if I ever leave the house. And I’m sure they talk > about me behind my back [in cunning whispers]. But I’m on to them – I don’t > ever go out now and I’ve drawn chalk circles around all my possessions. > White for non-perishable and yellow for perishable, that makes sense doesn’t > it? Doesn’t it?

They pretended not to hear you…? —

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Question:

the most potent ones increases some akathisia or movement disorder risks-I don’t want to scare you or make you concerned-just aware that if you have this uncontrollable urge to move and an inability to sit still, or you notice very small movements of your tongue or feet that you are not controlling please tell your doctor

I know we recently talked about this, but I’m still amazed at the similarity of Akathisia and RLS.  I’ve had these symptoms since around age 13, long before I took any psychiatric meds. Tono — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hi. I dated a guy that did take it for psychosis.  It made him gain weight and made him very sleepy.  He didn’t have PD, but he was an anxious psychotic.  Would only shop in the grocery store in the middle of the night because he was social phobic.  The med worked pretty well for him, but I know it was real expensive.  I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for PD either.  Let us know if it works for you.  With my diagnosis, (Major Depression with psychosis and GAD and PD) I could maybe benefit from taking it myself.  I will talk to my pdoc tomorrow and see what he thinks.  (The LAST thing I need though is to gain more weight!) Sally ….and Zyprexa is the worst culprit where weight gain is concerned. Maybe Risperdal might be a better choice? Philip Hi. This may appear twice, because I wrote a reply and either AOL or Google closed down on me.. but here goes. No Philip, but thanks.  Risperdal doesn’t work for me for the psychosis, and it does absolutely nothing for PD. In fact, I think I developed PD taking Risperdal.  The only drug that works for me when I’m psychotic is good old Haldol, and I think I need to up my dosage because I had about a week of voices last week, and I was taking my meds faithfully.  I’ve been on several things, and I thought if the Zyprexa could address two of my symptoms in one whack, it might be worth a try…but I bet the reason my docs have never tried me on Zyprexa is the weight gain issue.  Oh well. Sally Did you try Seroquel? Abilify? P. Hi. Yes and yes.  Abilify didn’t touch my psychosis, and the Seroquel. OMG.  I was put on Seroquel once when I was very sick and hospitalized.  I was really sick, and I guess the doctor wanted to put me on a very massive dose to kind of shock me out of psychosis.  It was a bad idea. My blood pressure dropped, I crawled to the nurses station to get help, and I spent the next day in a wheel chair because I was too weak to walk.  The nurse later made a comment about the fact that she was worried when she gave me my medication that day, because the dose of Seroquel was so large.  The nurse had reservations that the doctor didn’t!  The nurse was right, I don’t tolerate large doses of Seroquel.  It was very very scary to be psychotic and to have my blood pressure drop like that.  I always make a point to tell new doctors about my reaction, I never want THAT to happen again. Sally

Scary…. remarkable that you have paradoxical reactions to all novel *atypical* antipsychotics. If Haldol works, that’s a good thing though. You had a very stressful time so it’s not surprising that some symptoms worsen for a bit so maybe your doc would agree to up the dose some. Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hi. I dated a guy that did take it for psychosis.  It made him gain weight and made him very sleepy.  He didn’t have PD, but he was an anxious psychotic.  Would only shop in the grocery store in the middle of the night because he was social phobic.  The med worked pretty well for him, but I know it was real expensive.  I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for PD either.  Let us know if it works for you.  With my diagnosis, (Major Depression with psychosis and GAD and PD) I could maybe benefit from taking it myself.  I will talk to my pdoc tomorrow and see what he thinks.  (The LAST thing I need though is to gain more weight!) Sally ….and Zyprexa is the worst culprit where weight gain is concerned. Maybe Risperdal might be a better choice? Philip Hi. This may appear twice, because I wrote a reply and either AOL or Google closed down on me.. but here goes. No Philip, but thanks.  Risperdal doesn’t work for me for the psychosis, and it does absolutely nothing for PD. In fact, I think I developed PD taking Risperdal.  The only drug that works for me when I’m psychotic is good old Haldol, and I think I need to up my dosage because I had about a week of voices last week, and I was taking my meds faithfully.  I’ve been on several things, and I thought if the Zyprexa could address two of my symptoms in one whack, it might be worth a try…but I bet the reason my docs have never tried me on Zyprexa is the weight gain issue.  Oh well. Sally Did you try Seroquel? Abilify? P.

Hi. Yes and yes.  Abilify didn’t touch my psychosis, and the Seroquel. OMG.  I was put on Seroquel once when I was very sick and hospitalized.  I was really sick, and I guess the doctor wanted to put me on a very massive dose to kind of shock me out of psychosis.  It was a bad idea. My blood pressure dropped, I crawled to the nurses station to get help, and I spent the next day in a wheel chair because I was too weak to walk.  The nurse later made a comment about the fact that she was worried when she gave me my medication that day, because the dose of Seroquel was so large.  The nurse had reservations that the doctor didn’t!  The nurse was right, I don’t tolerate large doses of Seroquel.  It was very very scary to be psychotic and to have my blood pressure drop like that.  I always make a point to tell new doctors about my reaction, I never want THAT to happen again. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I did, but I found the degree of emotional blunting to be unacceptable. ::Basically, I’m exhausting all options, before reverting to benzos How frustrating this must be for you! I hope you can find something that helps. Good luck! Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hi. I dated a guy that did take it for psychosis.  It made him gain weight and made him very sleepy.  He didn’t have PD, but he was an anxious psychotic.  Would only shop in the grocery store in the middle of the night because he was social phobic.  The med worked pretty well for him, but I know it was real expensive.  I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for PD either.  Let us know if it works for you.  With my diagnosis, (Major Depression with psychosis and GAD and PD) I could maybe benefit from taking it myself.  I will talk to my pdoc tomorrow and see what he thinks.  (The LAST thing I need though is to gain more weight!) Sally

 ….and Zyprexa is the worst culprit where weight gain is concerned. Maybe Risperdal might be a better choice? Philip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hi. I dated a guy that did take it for psychosis.  It made him gain weight and made him very sleepy.  He didn’t have PD, but he was an anxious psychotic.  Would only shop in the grocery store in the middle of the night because he was social phobic.  The med worked pretty well for him, but I know it was real expensive.  I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for PD either.  Let us know if it works for you.  With my diagnosis, (Major Depression with psychosis and GAD and PD) I could maybe benefit from taking it myself.  I will talk to my pdoc tomorrow and see what he thinks.  (The LAST thing I need though is to gain more weight!) Sally  ….and Zyprexa is the worst culprit where weight gain is concerned. Maybe Risperdal might be a better choice? Philip

Hi. This may appear twice, because I wrote a reply and either AOL or Google closed down on me.. but here goes. No Philip, but thanks.  Risperdal doesn’t work for me for the psychosis, and it does absolutely nothing for PD. In fact, I think I developed PD taking Risperdal.  The only drug that works for me when I’m psychotic is good old Haldol, and I think I need to up my dosage because I had about a week of voices last week, and I was taking my meds faithfully.  I’ve been on several things, and I thought if the Zyprexa could address two of my symptoms in one whack, it might be worth a try…but I bet the reason my docs have never tried me on Zyprexa is the weight gain issue.  Oh well. Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Hi. I dated a guy that did take it for psychosis.  It made him gain weight and made him very sleepy.  He didn’t have PD, but he was an anxious psychotic.  Would only shop in the grocery store in the middle of the night because he was social phobic.  The med worked pretty well for him, but I know it was real expensive.  I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for PD either.  Let us know if it works for you.  With my diagnosis, (Major Depression with psychosis and GAD and PD) I could maybe benefit from taking it myself.  I will talk to my pdoc tomorrow and see what he thinks.  (The LAST thing I need though is to gain more weight!) Sally ….and Zyprexa is the worst culprit where weight gain is concerned. Maybe Risperdal might be a better choice? Philip Hi. This may appear twice, because I wrote a reply and either AOL or Google closed down on me.. but here goes. No Philip, but thanks.  Risperdal doesn’t work for me for the psychosis, and it does absolutely nothing for PD. In fact, I think I developed PD taking Risperdal.  The only drug that works for me when I’m psychotic is good old Haldol, and I think I need to up my dosage because I had about a week of voices last week, and I was taking my meds faithfully.  I’ve been on several things, and I thought if the Zyprexa could address two of my symptoms in one whack, it might be worth a try…but I bet the reason my docs have never tried me on Zyprexa is the weight gain issue.  Oh well. Sally

Did you try Seroquel? Abilify? P. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::I’m also taking Paxil at 50 mg. I’ve tried other drugs in the past, ::which havent’ worked: imipramine, Effexor. My case is condered severe ::(my pscyhiatrist’s wording). I thought you had success with a high dose of benzos? Why did you stop taking them? ::I’m taking 20 mg of Zyprexa. I thought ::Zyprexa was suppost to act quickly (like a benzo). Do you know if this ::is the case, or if it’s more like an antidepressant, where I’ll have to ::wait a few week. Make sure to read LM`s reply to you. Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Yes benzos work for me. I’m not taking a benzo now. But in the past I needed 5 mg of Xanax. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi I’m also taking Paxil at 50 mg. I’ve tried other drugs in the past, which havent’ worked: imipramine, Effexor. Did a benzo work? Are you taking a benzo now? Chip

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

I thought you had success with a high dose of benzos? Why did you stop taking them?

I did, but I found the degree of emotional blunting to be unacceptable. Basically, I’m exhausting all options, before reverting to benzos alexzi ::I’m taking 20 mg of Zyprexa. I thought ::Zyprexa was suppost to act quickly (like a benzo). Do you know if this ::is the case, or if it’s more like an antidepressant, where I’ll have to ::wait a few week. Make sure to read LM`s reply to you. Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi I’m also taking Paxil at 50 mg. I’ve tried other drugs in the past, which havent’ worked: imipramine, Effexor.

Did a benzo work? Are you taking a benzo now? Chip — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Hi. I dated a guy that did take it for psychosis.  It made him gain weight and made him very sleepy.  He didn’t have PD, but he was an anxious psychotic.  Would only shop in the grocery store in the middle of the night because he was social phobic.  The med worked pretty well for him, but I know it was real expensive.  I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for PD either.  Let us know if it works for you.  With my diagnosis, (Major Depression with psychosis and GAD and PD) I could maybe benefit from taking it myself.  I will talk to my pdoc tomorrow and see what he thinks.  (The LAST thing I need though is to gain more weight!) Sally — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi I’m also taking Paxil at 50 mg. I’ve tried other drugs in the past, which havent’ worked: imipramine, Effexor. My case is condered severe (my pscyhiatrist’s wording). I’m taking 20 mg of Zyprexa. I thought Zyprexa was suppost to act quickly (like a benzo). Do you know if this is the case, or if it’s more like an antidepressant, where I’ll have to wait a few week. Thanks for your response ealexzi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome to ASAPM! The two most effective class of meds for the treatment of panic disorder are benzodiazepines and antidepressants. Unfortunately, there is a growing trend for some doctors to prescribe antipsychotics for anxiety disorders instead of the much maligned, wrongly may I add, benzo. From what I`ve seen at these groups, zyprexa seems ineffective for many when being used to treat "just" anxiety/panic. Zyprexa has it`s place in psychiatry but should be the very last resort when it comes to treating anxiety and panic, in my opinion. Have you tried any other meds for your panic? What kind of doctor prescribed the zyprexa? Do you have any other disorders besides panic? How much zyprexa are you currently taking? I suggest you call your doctor and tell him you feel worse than ever. It could be a few weeks before the zyprexa works and the side-effects lessen or go away. Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~

– The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi I’m also taking Paxil at 50 mg. I’ve tried other drugs in the past, which havent’ worked: imipramine, Effexor. My case is condered severe (my pscyhiatrist’s wording). I’m taking 20 mg of Zyprexa. I thought Zyprexa was suppost to act quickly (like a benzo). Do you know if this is the case, or if it’s more like an antidepressant, where I’ll have to wait a few week. Thanks for your response ealexzi Welcome to ASAPM! The two most effective class of meds for the treatment of panic disorder are benzodiazepines and antidepressants. Unfortunately, there is a growing trend for some doctors to prescribe antipsychotics for anxiety disorders instead of the much maligned, wrongly may I add, benzo. From what I`ve seen at these groups, zyprexa seems ineffective for many when being used to treat "just" anxiety/panic. Zyprexa has it`s place in psychiatry but should be the very last resort when it comes to treating anxiety and panic, in my opinion. Have you tried any other meds for your panic? What kind of doctor prescribed the zyprexa? Do you have any other disorders besides panic? How much zyprexa are you currently taking? I suggest you call your doctor and tell him you feel worse than ever. It could be a few weeks before the zyprexa works and the side-effects lessen or go away. Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~

zyprexa works immediately for sedation and takes three days to stabilize in serum for any noticeable antipsychotic activity for what are called positive symptoms and a week for negative ones-if it is going to do anything it would be doing it-it however isn’t vaguely related in its mechanism of action to a benzo-taking both a novel antipsychotic and an ssri ,particularly paxil, which is one one  of the most potent ones increases some akathisia or movement disorder risks-I don’t want to scare you or make you concerned-just aware that if you have this uncontrollable urge to move and an inability to sit still, or you notice very small movements of your tongue or feet that you are not controlling please tell your doctor — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

::Hi, :: ::I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and ::I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more ::Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. :: ::Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Dear ealexzi, Welcome to ASAPM! The two most effective class of meds for the treatment of panic disorder are benzodiazepines and antidepressants. Unfortunately, there is a growing trend for some doctors to prescribe antipsychotics for anxiety disorders instead of the much maligned, wrongly may I add, benzo. From what I`ve seen at these groups, zyprexa seems ineffective for many when being used to treat "just" anxiety/panic. Zyprexa has it`s place in psychiatry but should be the very last resort when it comes to treating anxiety and panic, in my opinion. Have you tried any other meds for your panic? What kind of doctor prescribed the zyprexa? Do you have any other disorders besides panic? How much zyprexa are you currently taking? I suggest you call your doctor and tell him you feel worse than ever. It could be a few weeks before the zyprexa works and the side-effects lessen or go away. Good luck, I hope it works out for you. Jackie ~*~My greatest fear is there is no such thing as PMS and this is really my personality~*~ — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

Response:

Hi, I’m taking Zyprexa for Panic Disorder (I don’t have any psychosis), and I’m wondering how long the drug takes to work? I acutally feel more Panicy now than before I started the medication — three days ago. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I wish I could help ya – but I’ve never heard of anyone taking it for panic before.  My guess is that it will take a few weeks. My sister was on it for OCD before and it did a good job. You may gain some weight though so watch out for cravings! Keep us informed please – I’d like to hear if it helps with your panics. — _TJ_ <TJ_IREL at YAHOO dot IE — The charter is available at: http://readystump.algebra.com/~asapm

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